deadeye ive Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Good constructive debate warming up here........... Certainly knowing the limits of any gun, ammo, and yourself is a must and I for one agree with that . Throw in a different set of variables ie wind ,range ,lamp and even temperature and the 12 ft Lb struggles ..........as does any gun thats being used to it's maximum potential 90 % of the time where there IS no margin for error. Sure .............For sitting behind a stealth net 30 yds away from a burrow it has it's uses ...............But walkabout lamping on land lamped every now and then ..........Forget it .And this is my point ............MOST haven't the patiance to sit still for hours on end waiting. I bring into question any Shooter who claims to have a 100 % Kill rate.........Not even possible with the high powered rifles which still require Skill and experience to kill cleanly .We don't operate in a ideal world , Human error etc! Oh and I don't look down my nose at 12 ft lbers...........Feel free to read the last paragraph of my original post on this thread . Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Stealth net..............Blimey. most of my bunny shooting has been walked up lamping. I do decoy pigeons in and ambush the crows. Yup, Ive had dark days where you turn on the lamp, creep up, thurn on the lamp, and some how, just some how, bugs knows that your creeping on him with an air rifle, and has just hopped another 30yds to make it 70yds from you. Indeed, the rimmy would come in very useful here.................But so does NV gear.... To which Im just saving up and giving it a few "looks" in the mags, its my birthday soon you see........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 here.................But so does NV gear.... To which Im just saving up and giving it a few "looks" in the mags, its my birthday soon you see........................ Don't forget the FAC Air Gun as well which incidently I prefer to using a Rimfire............I believe there is NV Equipment that attaches to your scope ....Looks a Handy bit of kit Lurcher boy as one and if he sees this thread he will no doubt have some input Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 You can get good results lamping with a 12lber. For sure you need discipline on the lamp, and a good overall technique. This can take years to hone, and no I'm nowhere near yet! If you have a good core skill element built up using a 12lber, and let's face it you need to good skills to get good results you can think about going in the direction of FAC rated weapons. However if you do not have a good skill base then changing to FAC will see better results but at the cost of skills. You do not need to be as good a stalker if you pick them off at 100yds. This gets results but (IMHO) is not as skillful as someone who can get within 30yds. Depends what you want at the end of the day...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipster Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Wow Great im gonna join in For those of you who have not already done so go to your gun shop and ask to have a hold of the New 12ftlb Electronics Air Wolf Pure sex thats what that is. I shoot All 12ftlbs air rifles to include Hw100, S16, Ultra,Firebird,s200 and love em all. But do sometimes get a little envious of you boys who can scope something in at 100 yds or so But in the meantime ill stick to what i enjoy Keep them comments coming in its far better than working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 However if you do not have a good skill base then changing to FAC will see better results but at the cost of skills. You do not need to be as good a stalker if you pick them off at 100yds. This gets results but (IMHO) is not as skillful as someone who can get within 30yds. Depends what you want at the end of the day...................... Agreed Snakebite But it's not about getting more power so you can become lazy and less skillfull.......It's about getting a more humane tool for the job in question .......When I shot with the S310 and the Falcon Raptor MK II you'd get in range ,pull the trigger and watch the pellet in the gunlight travel towards the intended victim .......only for it to move through trigger noise and the fact the slow velocity of the pellet gave the rabbit time to do this ...........End result was a squealer that you ended up running after to administer the coup de grace Just one of a few examples I could mention. Even with 35 ft lbs I still operate around 40 - 50 yds (65 % of the guns true potential )...............Its STILL ALL ABOUT GETTING AS CLOSE TO THE QUARRY USING FIELDCRAFT. Even a .17 hmr has it,s limits ...........Capable of 200 yds but for consistancy you bring this down to 125 yds AAs have brought out a variable power S410 12-32Ft Lb at a turn of a screw......Their marketing division must be targeting a section of shooters that want to remain true to the 12 ft lb me thinks ............A nice and handy option to have ..........Not sure about the practicability of it though Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I agree with Ive on this one. The .22LR and .17HMR do offer much longer distances over airguns to be sure. But they do ensure that when you pull the trigger on target, you get a clean humane kill everytime. This being my principal reason for getting the above calibres. Talking discipline and technique, you still need to retain field craft to a certain degree. It takes a steady and educated shot to drop a Rabbit at 125 yards. But don't forget your personal discipline's, no one is going to force you to take 100 yards shots just because you have the tool for it. If you only wish to take 30-40 yard shots, the choice is yours. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper-Blend Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 As stated before you dont get a clean and humane kill every time!! there are always factors that will stop this happening and sometimes you dont get a clean kill, that is same for everyone. I know this as i did some sniper training when i was in the army and there are all kinds of veriables that can put your shot off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 As stated before you dont get a clean and humane kill every time!! there are always factors that will stop this happening and sometimes you dont get a clean kill, that is same for everyone. I know this as i did some sniper training when i was in the army and there are all kinds of veriables that can put your shot off Thats rather contrary to your previous post. Quote: In all the years i have been shooting i have never once just injured my prey and i dont exspect to either. Everything i have shot at has been a clean kill right down the line and i imagine it is the same for most people who shoot 12lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper-Blend Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) Yes at very close range, i was talking like rats!!! when it comes to 22rimmys and stuff and your ranges rae even greater then the veriables come into play. I have only started shooting other stuff like rabbits very recently and i know that a clean kill is not always the case. Like i said the other was about rats and that is indoors so you dont have to consider wind for one so up untill very recently yes i did have clean kills right down the line Edited February 28, 2006 by Sniper-Blend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 This is where a more powerful round is going to make better the job in hand. If you take a 40 grain Subsonic .22LR and use it at 40 yards, you are going to be on target everytime, unless you are at fault. A 14 grain .22 pellet can be seriously affected in the slightest of wind. And as Ive states, it takes so long to hit the target, that you also risk the target moving and the shot ill placed. The best shot I ever managed with the .22 12ft/lb was just over 50 yards. a windless day in a paddock lined by conifers. Target was slightly elevated at a brow of the paddock. Took aim and down he went, with the shot being placed perfectly between eye and ear. But that was the most extreme I have missed shots at 30 yards due to wind or the rabbit moving as the sound reached it quicker than the pellet. I could discuss this all day long with regard to accuracy on paper targets or tin cans. However, a live quarry must be given as much respect as you have to give. These are my principals and the reason I applied for rimfire. Don't get me wrong and i'm certainly not preaching. I know that these things can happen, but the more you do to prevent it the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper-Blend Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I agree that rimfire is more suitable for taking them especially in wind but every now and again you dont get a clean kill no matter what weapon you use, anything can happen and if you have had clean kills up to now then i garantee one day you wont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 However, a live quarry must be given as much respect as you have to give. Spot on .......................... Thats what hunting is all about .........To much left to chance and luck with 12 ft lb I'm afraid when hunting on foot. Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper-Blend Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 From what i see with the way this thread is going then all those who are using F.A.C look down on us 12lbers :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Nobody has any reason to look down on anyone else, because of their weapon of choice. As has been repeatedly stated in this thread, in one form or another, all weapons can do a job very well. For the shooter to know the limitations of their weapons, may be the skill. Many of us have air weapons, shotguns and FAC weapons, or have had experience of them all. Its not an "either/or" question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipster Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Nobody has any reason to look down on anyone else, because of their weapon of choice. As has been repeatedly stated in this thread, in one form or another, all weapons can do a job very well. For the shooter to know the limitations of their weapons, may be the skill. Many of us have air weapons, shotguns and FAC weapons, or have had experience of them all. Its not an "either/or" question. Cranners i totally agree My Dads weapon produced 5 fine sons Mine i little smaller has only produced 2 but nevertheless still fine :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipster Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Sorry for that just feel it has to end on a funny note :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 That was funny ? :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper-Blend Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Nobody has any reason to look down on anyone else, because of their weapon of choice. As has been repeatedly stated in this thread, in one form or another, all weapons can do a job very well. For the shooter to know the limitations of their weapons, may be the skill. Many of us have air weapons, shotguns and FAC weapons, or have had experience of them all. Its not an "either/or" question. Cranners i totally agree My Dads weapon produced 5 fine sons Mine i little smaller has only produced 2 but nevertheless still fine :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lizard Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I think that what was a relatively simple air weapon (even I replaced the spring on my old Diana Original Mk3) with performance limitations, has developed into quite a complex, quasi technical, piece of apparatus, over the last 15 years.Some of the posts on here demonstrate that. Whereas the shotgun has basically stayed the same during this period. Once again, Cranfield hits the nail on the head. Modern Air Rifles - even 12 ft-lb ones - can be very sophisticated pieces of kit. And you wouldn't use a shotty or FAC for ferals or maggies in your back yard, now would you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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