.243 80gr vs 100gr

[Redgum]

This is zero, that is zero,alot of old tosh all this paper punching and chest puffing. Yes you need to be confident with an accurate rifle.Its doesnt really matter what you call it Dekers its what you do with it when your taking down your quarry. It wasnt that long ago when a stalker with a hunting rifle would be pretty pleased to get a 2inch group at 100yds and plenty of deer were culled humanely.

We are getting so up ourselves these days with shooting little keyholes at great ranges, I was out with a lad the other day who had a lovely Tika lite, he said he could shoot nice little groups out to 200yds time after time. First Munty moved out into the clearing,once the harris bipod was clanked down and adjusted and all the ground level bramble had been trodden the Munty had decided he was bored and started trotting off. Unfortunatly the Munty stopped to look over his shoulder to see if the wind gauge and lap top were coming out,just long enough for me to put a sierra soft point right through his heart.

[gixer1]

the Munty stopped to look over his shoulder to see if the wind gauge and lap top were coming out.

 

 

that did make me chuckle!

 

and i would agree, I do enjoy shooting targets but it's not that long ago scopes and moderators were not really used! try a 150 yard shot through irons!!

Edited March 14, 2011 by gixer1

[Redgum]

But I'd bet you'd be glad of those Iron sights if a tonne of water buffalo was closing in on you fast

[gixer1]

But I'd bet you'd be glad of those Iron sights if a tonne of water buffalo was closing in on you fast

 

 

i tried targets with open sights on my win 94 and couldn't hit f'all!

[kent]

This is zero, that is zero,alot of old tosh all this paper punching and chest puffing. Yes you need to be confident with an accurate rifle.Its doesnt really matter what you call it Dekers its what you do with it when your taking down your quarry. It wasnt that long ago when a stalker with a hunting rifle would be pretty pleased to get a 2inch group at 100yds and plenty of deer were culled humanely.

We are getting so up ourselves these days with shooting little keyholes at great ranges, I was out with a lad the other day who had a lovely Tika lite, he said he could shoot nice little groups out to 200yds time after time. First Munty moved out into the clearing,once the harris bipod was clanked down and adjusted and all the ground level bramble had been trodden the Munty had decided he was bored and started trotting off. Unfortunatly the Munty stopped to look over his shoulder to see if the wind gauge and lap top were coming out,just long enough for me to put a sierra soft point right through his heart.

 

I hear you but i think you miss the point, zeroing at 100 and then saying that will put me on at 187 or 200 or whatever with a box of factory is just plain theory. The same is true of handloads, the only way to know is to try. Having no practice ground at that range or never having tested such a theory then it is just plain irresponsible to take any shot other than 100 yds aiming a little low. Out of the misses and woundings i have seen some that were short range easy shot afairs were the shooter zeroed high at a 100 yds range say from a bench most likely then tried an off hand shot from sticks at peak trajectory and went even higher

[gixer1]

Although it's kinda hard to test every range between 0 and 300 yards! Very few people I know use range finders so there is ALWAYS a but of guess work involved and some kentucky windage, to say otherwise is usually bull even with a range finder, wind meter and ballistics turrets as the wind maybe 2mph at the firing point but 10mph at the target!

 

Regards,

 

Gixer

[Mr_Logic]

You don't need to test every range, just enough to know what your rifle and ammo setup will do.

 

Maths can do the rest for you. I know BC, muzzle velocity and guesstimate wind speed and direction.

 

Simple fact is that the further out you go, the more precise you must be. With the aid of a ballistics calculator on my phone it is perfectly possible to be spot on at many different ranges. The damn thing can even do environment guesstimates and most of the time they are pretty close. Certainly close enough I've had cold-bore v-bulls at 600 and 1000 yards anyway.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Mr_Logic

[highseas]

maybe me being dumb.. but what the hell does it all matter!? if you sero band on at 100 then even if the bullet drops 2,1/2 inch at 200 then the fox/deer is still dead so why argue, and fuss? at real range 300plus it matters but dont be petty about a inch hear and inch their

[Redgum]

Although it's kinda hard to test every range between 0 and 300 yards! Very few people I know use range finders so there is ALWAYS a but of guess work involved and some kentucky windage, to say otherwise is usually bull even with a range finder, wind meter and ballistics turrets as the wind maybe 2mph at the firing point but 10mph at the target!

 

Regards,

 

Gixer

Thats exactly it,I sometimes wonder if some of the folk on this forum have ever seen a deer, let alone shot one. Maybe its just me being a fly in the ointment but the deer I come across give a very small window of opportunity to deliver a precise shot.Could it be that the deer population in the rest of the country stand there ruminating without a care in the world allowing for the range finder/wind measure and mobile phone to satalite plot em.

[Mr_Logic]

I've found if you're far enough away that you need to do that, then yes they've given me pretty much as long as I need. If they're more aware, then they're closer anyway, so you don't need to worry so much.

[kent]

Thats exactly it,I sometimes wonder if some of the folk on this forum have ever seen a deer, let alone shot one. Maybe its just me being a fly in the ointment but the deer I come across give a very small window of opportunity to deliver a precise shot.Could it be that the deer population in the rest of the country stand there ruminating without a care in the world allowing for the range finder/wind measure and mobile phone to satalite plot em.

 

Nope, sometimes you have a long time to take a good shot at the beast you want (normally at longer range on open ground) sometimes you have little opertuntity and you must seize it (common in woodland) Wind meters etc are impractical in the field of course and also rangefinders for most of the time. This is why we must be 100% of our trajectory and zero also windage allowances because we must make educated guesses! Knowing the set up means if you have to guess the range of a roe at 200 yds say and end up being within 40yds ie 160-240 and call the wind as a 2" correction and its a three then you are still going to get into the kill zone effectively with a good 200yds zero that you have pracised actually shooting. However not having practised or set up your so called 200 yds zero correctly your compounded errors are just that more likely to lead to a miss or wound (longer range shooting is about things you know and things you dont, the more you know the better). I have already mentioned "the miss over the top" that happens at shorter ranges, ok it won't happen if you only heart shoot but what about that time when your covering a downed beast say and it sicks it's head up again unexpectantly - are you going to wait till it gets on its feet, i dont think so i know i don't and yes i have shot quite a few deer, watch them a lot more and live with them as neighbours

[Blunderbust]

I have read this thread a couple of times and can't understand why people get so excited about the meaning and location of zero. Thankfully the OP's question has been answered by a couple of people and hopefully he has managed to extract the information from amongst the rest of the arguments that seem to manifest on numerous threads throughout this forum.

 

The word zero is used as a term for the firer to get the Mean Point of Impact (MPI), which is the exact centre of where the group of 3 or 5 shots (which ever you prefer, but 3 rounds is better with reference to the barrel temp and cooling) strike the target. The distance between the MPI and the Correct Zero Point (CZP) is then measured, the sights are then adjusted and the rifle is re fired. This practice is repeated until the MPI super imposes the CZP. Once the firer has achieved this they can then loosen the scale securing screw on both the Elevation and Direction Drums which then allows them to slip the scales so they both are set to zero then retighten the securing screws. The firer can then adjust the sights to suit the different ranges, heavier or lighter bullets knowing that he can reset to zero and be confident that the sight is still set on the original position.

 

Points to note:

 

1. There is no point in adjusting the sights until the firer can achieve a grouping that he/she is happy with, in my case I would only be happy at 1" and below at 100 meters. This is my preference and has been instilled in me having served 27 years in the infantry. That being said for hunting there is nothing wrong with being happy with a 2" grouping if you are restricting your maximum shoot range to 200 meters.

 

2. The CZP is defined by the firer, if he/she wishes to have it at 1" high @ 100 meters which will negate the need to adjust the sights for quarry out to 200 meters then why not, I do exactly the same myself.