Blue Bricks

[JonD]

Hi All,

 

Random question really, i'm building a smallish wall in my garden with bricks that match the house and want to do the final course in blue bricks along with inserting some in diamond patterns.

 

Can anyone in the know advise me if any blue bricks are easily available in the South East (Berkshire) that are solid and cheaper than engineering blues?

 

Cheers,

 

Jon.

[mark@mbb]

If you go into your local buiders merchants they will have a light blue brick it has 3 holes init and is normally used around the bases of walls and buildings and they are not to expensive

 

Mark

[THE AD]

You should be able to get them from a builders merchant. Staffordshire blues,got three holes in them but are engineering bricks not to expensive. Don't know of any others.

[cockercas]

About 40 to 50p each. Get proper engineering bricks to lay brick on edge or they will just blow after a few frosts

[JKD]

Hi Jon, are these what you're after? http://www.ibstock.com/highlights-brick-selector.asp?colour=blue&type=&texture=Smooth&size=

 

Basically they're a semi-engineering brick. Used for wall cappings/copings [brick on edge], soldier courses over doorways etc.

They come perferated [with holes] and solid. The solid ones I usually use on the open ends of wall cappings, so there isn't an ugly finish. As has been said, 50p ish each, probably £1 ish for solids.

Now available at your local friendly builders merchants probably

 

HTH

Chris

 

EDIT; Please use a 3/1 or at least a 4/1 sand/cement mortar or what cockercas said will happen [frost damage!]

Edited August 15, 2011 by JKD

[cockercas]

Use 4/1. Measure in buckets. Also if you haven't started building put two course of blue bricks first. Then it will stop your garden wall going green. Only if it looks nice tho. Depends on how high your going. Oh and put a squirt of fairy liquid in the mortar as its mixing.

[JKD]

Jon, DON'T use washing up liquid Just use Blue Circles Mastercrete [yellow bag] it has plasticiser addatives in it already

[cockercas]

Most cement has additive in it. Its ****. Bang a squirt of fairy in. Makes laying bricks easy. Btw I build multi million pound houses and use fairy. The trade additive you buy is ****

[JKD]

Most cement has additive in it. Its ****. Bang a squirt of fairy in. Makes laying bricks easy. Btw I build multi million pound houses and use fairy. The trade additive you buy is ****

 

You've obviously not used the good plasticisers then fella?! You keep on using "FAIRY" in your mix on your £M houses :blink:

Anyway, I'm not having an argument with someone who obviously has very limited experience in the building game And most cements don't have addatives/plasticisers, which are suitable for the OP's task.

 

To the OP,,,, PLEASE don't use washing up liquid, it has things in it that shouldn't be in your mortar.

Mastercrete has addatives in it that ARE suitable for your task. As I said, use a 3/1 sand/cement mix, or the weakest 4/1, and don't mix it up too wet Add water slowly to achieve a stiff mix, just wet and workable enough for those bricks. Too wet and things get messy very quickly

 

HTH

 

regards Chris

 

PS. Knowledge freely given from over 30yrs brick-laying experience

Edited August 16, 2011 by JKD

[JonD]

Cheers all,

 

The Ibstock link is the brick i'm after

 

I have mortar plasticiser at the ready

 

I'm only going up about 6\7 courses the front and facing sides will be brick and the back will be high density concrete block.

 

I will get the mastercrete I had originally planned to use the pre bagged mortar mix but soon realised it would cost me a small fortune compared to the bulk route.

 

So working on a 3\1 mix how many bags of cement will I need to go with a 1 ton bag of sand? Also, what's the best mix for concrete and type of aggregate for the footings? It will be a stepped footing between 6" - 4" deep, the ground underneath is rock solid, I have a 4m square deck with an 8ft square shed on it that's full and that is only sat on 12 1\2 High density blocks on an inch or 2 of concrete and that hasn't moved in 6 years

 

Thanks,

 

Jon.

[timps]

To the OP,,,, PLEASE don't use washing up liquid,

 

Totally agree, you have no control over the air entrainment and the size and amount of bubbles washing up liquid creates.

 

At best you get 'away' with it, at worse your mortar resembles shaving foam and fails.

 

My experience, 25 years working in the family business, a Materials Analytical Investigation Laboratories specialising in the Construction industry and I have seen plenty of failures attributed to washing up liquid.

 

[JKD]

Totally agree, you have no control over the air entrainment and the size and amount of bubbles washing up liquid creates.

 

At best you get 'away' with it, at worse your mortar resembles shaving foam and fails.

 

My experience, 25 years working in the family business, a Materials Analytical Investigation Laboratories specialising in the Construction industry and I have seen plenty of failures attributed to washing up liquid.

 

 

Thankyou for that timps The air entrainment detail I left out, as the OP only needs to know which cement [with no extra addatives] to use. In fact, it's not always a good idea to use plasticisers when laying engineering bricks, but in warm weather just a little bit, which is in the Mastercrete

 

atb

[JKD]

Cheers all,

 

The Ibstock link is the brick i'm after

 

I have mortar plasticiser at the ready

 

I'm only going up about 6\7 courses the front and facing sides will be brick and the back will be high density concrete block.

 

I will get the mastercrete I had originally planned to use the pre bagged mortar mix but soon realised it would cost me a small fortune compared to the bulk route.

 

So working on a 3\1 mix how many bags of cement will I need to go with a 1 ton bag of sand? Also, what's the best mix for concrete and type of aggregate for the footings? It will be a stepped footing between 6" - 4" deep, the ground underneath is rock solid, I have a 4m square deck with an 8ft square shed on it that's full and that is only sat on 12 1\2 High density blocks on an inch or 2 of concrete and that hasn't moved in 6 years

 

Thanks,

 

Jon.

 

Ok Jon, for the concrete you'll need just ballast and Ordinary Portland cement,,,, NO ADDATIVES The amount I can't tell you. But per volume [M cubed] a ton bag is approx 0.6M cubed when mixed. A 5/1 mix will be ok for your purposes. Again not too wet as it could shrink and crack with too much water in the mix.

The amount of cement req/bulk bag of building sand, I'd say 10 bags is plenty, and it sounds like you'll need it for other things if it's too much anyway Is the whole wall being built out of eng. bricks and conc. blocks? If so, then a 4/1 mix throughout will be ok. Only a 3/1 if it's just the capping bricks that are eng. Try the mix without extra plasticiser first, if it's not ok then add just a little of the extra one.

Let us know how you get on, and get some pic's up of it when finished

 

ATB

Chris

Edited August 16, 2011 by JKD

[cockercas]

Never had anything fail or discoulor from fairy. Some lads have been working have been using it for 40 years with no problems. As for good feb I use to use feb in a red tub. Was cracking stuff. They don't make it anymore. The stuff at the merchants is ****. Even the concentrate is ****

[timps]

Never had anything fail or discoulor from fairy. Some lads have been working have been using it for 40 years with no problems. As for good feb I use to use feb in a red tub. Was cracking stuff. They don't make it anymore. The stuff at the merchants is ****. Even the concentrate is ****

 

In my line of work I only ever get to see everyone's failures no one calls us in on good jobs for praise, so I see the same faults repeated by different people time after time.

 

When our company is called in to investigate failures some 2 or 3 years after construction only the owner, developer, architect & insurer are involved, very rarely the brick layer, so half the time they are unaware there was ever a problem.

 

If you use fairy liquid it does not guarantee failure but it increases the chance of failure.

 

The amount of times I hear ‘I have been doing this for xx amount of years no problems’.

The mechanism for failure is there but most times you get away with it, it’s usually another factor that tips this mechanism over the edge.

 

One case was the Beacon Heritage Centre Whitehaven, the guy always used ‘shop local’ cheap washing up liquid, he ran out and sent the labourer to get some more & he came back with ‘Fairy Liquid’, the trouble was he used the same dosage and it turned it into an Aero bar fit for nothing.

 

I got the ‘I have used washing up liquid for xx years no problems your talking ****’ we proved the mechanism of failure & needless to say it cost the construction company a fortune in remedial work to put the problem right.

 

The trouble is you have no idea on the formulation of your washing up liquid and whether they change it from one week to the next to get more bubbles, longer suds, pots cleaner etc & this will effect mortar & render in different ways.

 

So xx years no problems & 1 very very expensive problem for this guy.

[JKD]

Timps, I think your advice is going to fall on deaf ears Hope I'm proved wrong, but not going to hold my breath on it,,,,

for xx amount of time anyway :yp:

Just glad the OP has listened to the genuine advice

 

atb

[Gimlet]

Have to agree that using detergent as entrainer is bad practise. I've worked on sites where they used it and I hated the muck. Felt slimy on the trowel and the masonry doesn't seem able to suck it up. I reckon the final adhesion must be poor.

Totally agree about the quality of Febmix Plus, in the red tubs. You can still get it. I buy mine from a local merchant Burdens. Its by far the best. TP/Jewson own brand is garbage. Probably better off with Fairy.

As for Staffordshire Blues, they're not. They're not clay any more they're coloured concrete. The only thing that hasn't changed is the price. For the job in hand buy the tri-hole lightweights (not sure if they are true class B eng. I think they might just be perforated). Solids good for brick-on-edge but for anything else save 50p a brick and go for the perfs.

[JonD]

Have to agree that using detergent as entrainer is bad practise. I've worked on sites where they used it and I hated the muck. Felt slimy on the trowel and the masonry doesn't seem able to suck it up. I reckon the final adhesion must be poor.

Totally agree about the quality of Febmix Plus, in the red tubs. You can still get it. I buy mine from a local merchant Burdens. Its by far the best. TP/Jewson own brand is garbage. Probably better off with Fairy.

As for Staffordshire Blues, they're not. They're not clay any more they're coloured concrete. The only thing that hasn't changed is the price. For the job in hand buy the tri-hole lightweights (not sure if they are true class B eng. I think they might just be perforated). Solids good for brick-on-edge but for anything else save 50p a brick and go for the perfs.

 

Cheers guys Your help and knowledge is much appreciated.

 

I have now ordered 1 1000KG bag of sand, 10 x Mastercrete Blue circle cement, 250KG of pea shingle for the footings and already have the plasticiser here, along with trowel, string lines builders long level and a line level.

 

I do have some of the blue 3 hole bricks from Wickes, due to cost I'm going to use them as the top course in a normal bond then will cap off with deck board to match the deck and will also be more comfortable to kneel on as it's going to be part veg bed and an alpine garden\rockery in the shaded part..

 

I have never built a wall before so am part looking forward to it and part fearing it lol, it can't be easy as there is a trade to it

 

I'll put pics up during the build, one last question, how many courses can I go up in a day, this may be irellevant as I may be slower than a snail racing it's shadow laying the bricks

 

Cheers,

 

Jon.

[JKD]

I can sense a "Westminster Smudge" on it's way

Only kidding Jon

The bricks from Wickes are probably Ibstocks or similar anyway. Just take your time and don't add too much water to the mix, and only add the plasticiser if it's really needed. You'll know if it's needed As you build, if the previous mortar joint starts "oozing out" slow down.

If I was closer I'd pop over and start you off

 

You say you've ordered pea shingle? Should be 20mm ballast mate Pea is too fine for the base.

Anyway, you've got some courage to DIY so good luck.

Chris

Edited August 16, 2011 by JKD

[JonD]

You say you've ordered pea shingle? Should be 20mm ballast mate Pea is too fine for the base.

Anyway, you've got some courage to DIY so good luck.

Chris

 

I have but have time to amend the order as it's not coming until Saturday, if you could recommend what I should order from Wickes it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the offer, I have been doing lots of reading, watching and listening lol.

 

I shoot at Dartford quite a bit, if you fancy meeting up and killing some clays let me know

 

Jon.

[JKD]

I have but have time to amend the order as it's not coming until Saturday, if you could recommend what I should order from Wickes it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the offer, I have been doing lots of reading, watching and listening lol.

 

I shoot at Dartford quite a bit, if you fancy meeting up and killing some clays let me know

 

Jon.

 

Cheers for the offer Jon, but I'm a pop gun [air] shooter only Would that be at JJ's or Church lane? I could throw a stone out of my back garden into JJ's

Anyway,,,,

Like I said on a previous reply,,,,, you need ballast. One jumbo bag [ton bag] roughly mixes to 0.6M cubed. So work out the volume of your footings and go from there. You'll need Ordinary Portland [paper bags] cement, approx 7/jumbo bag.

[paulf]

I cant add anything else to the advice. What i would add though is the red tub feb is definately still made and available. I bought a drum a few weeks back.

[JKD]

Ok, just for future reference,,,,

Modern addatives/plasticisers do work. One of the best makes is Cementone, especially for bricklaying and rendering solutions.

But most makes of addative/plasticiser will add some benefit to most mortars. It all depends on the sand type [quarry source] and cement used.

Some work together and some don't, so don't write one off just because it doesn't work in your mix.

 

And DON'T USE WASHING UP LIQUIDS/DETERGENTS!!!

 

HTH,,,,, this message will self destruct in 10 seconds,,, 9,,,8,,,7,,,

[JonD]

Order updated to ballast and removed pea gravel

 

Fairy applied to the washing up

 

Jon.

[JKD]

 

Fairy applied to the washing up

 

Jon.

 

Good man After all, that's what it's made for,,,, not mixing in with your "donald"