Land authority question

[Stratts]

Hi guys quick query bout land authority but it's quite hard to explain.

 

Does a piece of land have to be cleared for the shooter himself with the firearms dept on a closed ticket, or does the land just have to be cleared for a certain caliber?

 

Example being I shoot on a farm which is cleared up to .223 with my .22lr & wmr. My mate came with me last night with farmers permission but only brought his air rifle as that's on an open ticket.

 

Could he have brought his .22lr too as I know the land is cleared, but no authority form has been put in for that land in his name signed by the farmer?

 

Hope you get what my ramblings are on about?!

Edited December 1, 2011 by Stratts

[TaxiDriver]

As I've understood things,

it depends on the wording on his ticket for each calibre, If he has an open ticket that allows him to use his different calibres on land that he has permission to shoot over.

If the wording is more restrictive then maybe not.

Edited December 1, 2011 by TaxiDriver

[Stratts]

Thing is with an open ticket the land doesn't have to be cleared by the police as it's up to the shooter. We both have open FAC air.

 

I know this land is cleared to .223 and I have an email to prove it which is why I can shoot there so I'd have thought he should be ok?

 

I'll ask my FEO when I see him later and report back just be nice to have a good idea before I do

[David BASC]

Take care - if the land is cleared for 223, it may ONLY be cleared for 223 and no other calibre - so with a 'closed' ticket you must contact your licensing authority to check what calibres are allowed on there with your closed ticket.

 

With an open ticket its up to the shooter to be confident the land if OK, you don’t need to have it cleared by the police, and of course to have permission to shoot there.

 

David

[wymberley]

Your open FAC only relates to air rifle by the sound of it. This means on land not cleared by the Firearms Dept.(FD) you can only clear it for FAC air unless your other calibres are also open. Is that what you're saying.

As this is legality question, assuming doesn't come into it; that e-mail clearing the land for 223 is from the FD and not, say, your local farmer? The first is evidence, the second is hearsay.

[markbivvy]

If the land is passed for a 223 any one with permission from the land owner can shoot it with a rifle up to 223.

this is how west yorkshire work it.

unless he has a named bit of land on his ticket.

E G .MR blogs can shoot on farmer giles farm at wIndy way. This would exclude him from doing so.

Edited December 1, 2011 by markbivvy

[markbivvy]

Your open FAC only relates to air rifle by the sound of it. This means on land not cleared by the Firearms Dept.(FD) you can only clear it for FAC air unless your other calibres are also open. Is that what you're saying.

As this is legality question, assuming doesn't come into it; that e-mail clearing the land for 223 is from the FD and not, say, your local farmer? The first is evidence, the second is hearsay.

 

this is true , but the twist in the tail is.

if the farmer tells the shooter it is passed for 223 and it turns out not to be the fault lays with the farmer not the shooter.

strange but true.

[David BASC]

West Yorks may well see it that way but others don’t, always best not to assume, best just call and ask

 

Conditions don't usually exclude anywhere per se...but again check the exact wording on yours.

 

David

[Luckyshot]

Take care - if the land is cleared for 223, it may ONLY be cleared for 223 and no other calibre - so with a 'closed' ticket you must contact your licensing authority to check what calibres are allowed on there with your closed ticket.

 

With an open ticket its up to the shooter to be confident the land if OK, you don’t need to have it cleared by the police, and of course to have permission to shoot there.

 

David

 

Thats the first Ive ever heard that said. Is that something new as Ive always understood it to be cleared upto and including a certain calibre in this case 223. I cant see an flo clearing land for each calire used that would be a total waste of time and resources. But I have been known to be wrong occasionaly.

[David BASC]

As I say, some say 'up to' is OK, others dont, for the sake of a phone call its worth double checking.

 

David

[Kes]

Just to add to the confusion, in Cheshire the land I shoot over is cleared for .243. I shoot .223 My cert, now open, includes a .22lr and an FAC air.

It may be just me assuming but I take the view of David BASC - any clearance is 'up to'and includes all smaller calibres. The only issues are, is his cert open and does he have permission. If his is closed, he needs his FEO to add the land, with the farmers permission for any calibre up to that which the land is cleared for.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Kes

[markbivvy]

Just to add to the confusion, in Cheshire the land I shoot over is cleared for .243. I shoot .223 My cert, now open, includes a .22lr and an FAC air.

It may be just me assuming but I take the view of David BASC - any clearance is 'up to'and includes all smaller calibres. The only issues are, is his cert open and does he have permission. If his is closed, he needs his FEO to add the land, with the farmers permission for any calibre up to that which the land is cleared for.

 

but he did not say that.

this is what he said.

 

Take care - if the land is cleared for 223, it may ONLY be cleared for 223 and no other calibre.

[Kes]

Mark, The point I was trying to make, badly perhaps, is that all my guns are cleared for that land there are no certificate exceptions for any of my guns and the cert was originally closed With the same land. The logic being that any smaller calibre is 'less of a risk' than the calibre the land 'cleared' for. I would say therefore any land is cleared for smaller calibres if its cleared for a bigger calibre. I have never heard of land cleared for a single calibre, but I could be wrong check with FEO.

[markbivvy]

Mark, The point I was trying to make, badly perhaps, is that all my guns are cleared for that land there are no certificate exceptions for any of my guns and the cert was originally closed With the same land. The logic being that any smaller calibre is 'less of a risk' than the calibre the land 'cleared' for. I would say therefore any land is cleared for smaller calibres if its cleared for a bigger calibre. I have never heard of land cleared for a single calibre, but I could be wrong check with FEO.

 

Totally agree with you Kes.

just what i said.

[Luckyshot]

Mark, The point I was trying to make, badly perhaps, is that all my guns are cleared for that land there are no certificate exceptions for any of my guns and the cert was originally closed With the same land. The logic being that any smaller calibre is 'less of a risk' than the calibre the land 'cleared' for. I would say therefore any land is cleared for smaller calibres if its cleared for a bigger calibre. I have never heard of land cleared for a single calibre, but I could be wrong check with FEO.

 

 

Totally agree with you Kes.

just what i said.

 

 

Thats what we all said its David who said the opposite. New one on me.

[Kes]

Thats what we all said its David who said the opposite. New one on me.

 

Sorry guys - read it too quickly and missed the most important bit.

[Stratts]

Blimey I made that sound too complicated in my 1st post I reckon.

 

To clarify I spoke with FEO today while he kindly granted me my 22-250

 

I have an email from FD saying land cleared up to and including .223.

Once the land is cleared anyone with permission can shoot said land up to cleared caliber.

It's up to the shooter to confirm with FD that the land is cleared for the caliber they wish to shoot.

 

So as I have the email my mate will be able to use his rimmie on the land when he's with me, which is how the farmer wants it for now.

 

The thing to be careful of is if you know someone shoots the land with say a 223, he may be on an open ticket. The LAND ITSELF might not be cleared on their system, so it's always best to check 1st

 

Cheers

[David BASC]

Spot on!

 

If you are shooting under what is often called a 'closed licence ,typically your first FAC, it is your responsibility to check that any land you have been given permission to shoot

over has been checked by the police for that cartridge. If you do not ascertain this, you

could be prosecuted for failing to comply with your conditions.

 

The best way to ascertain whether land has been passed is to contact the police firearms

licensing department for that area and ask them to confirm its suitability.

 

If the land has NOT been passed for your rifle, then you will need to write to the licensing department that issued your certificate to ask them to check it or make the necessary request to the relevant force to do so on their behalf.

 

Best wishes to all

 

David

[Stratts]

Yeah Cambs are really good at this I just ring them with details and they tell me there and then on the phone if the land is cleared. If so they email me confirmation, if not I submit the authority