Grey Hawk Posted June 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 It effects farmers very badly. Not just themselfs, but their whole family. Marrige break ups are high when their is no money to go around and the whole bussiness colapses. The worst iv seen get effected is small farmers, whos whole lively totally depends on their cattle. TB in cattle and badgers is very bad news indeed, if badgers were not culled, TB would be like foot and mouth, but worse, us fellow humans would be in trouble too. Frank. Hi Frank, unfortunately us humans are in trouble (not because of badgers) TB was pretty much eradicated in the uk by the end of the 1950's due to inoculation programmes. Immigration is actually the biggest cause of general TB spread in the UK. Many other countries carry out chest screening on immigrants to reduce the risk. TB is treatable in humans but has a stigma attached to it. I am not a raving extremist lefty/rightly or other wise politically driven animal. I am suggesting tighter controls on screening. My experience comes from my work in healthcare we have definitely seen an increase of transient TB, and have had to introduce an easy access to treatment programme. Now I am not suggesting for a minute that this has impacted on the overall country side. As generally immigration increases in urban areas where people may find easier access to financial independence. However it is also well know that there is a growing black market for cheap labour.In the larger picture though if human infection rates continue we may have a situation where people whose livelihoods depends on the countryside may be even more suspicious and guarded about who has access to their land. Regards Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytie Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Flytie, farmers weekly and fellow farming friends. As a farm manager I try and keep my ear to the ground. The whole foot and mouth incident stank so badly of corruption on the behalf of the gov that some farmers can still smell it. Somebody will be making money out of TB, that you can be assured of. Badgers are already being culled on the quiet regardless of wether or not its officially sanctioned, that is bound to happen. People will do it out of fear rather than wait for the go ahead. Leeboy Leeboy, I still think the scare is government led. Yet I agree wholeheartedly that someone will be making money out of it. I still have friends from college that farm in cornwall where the eradication programme started. It was, and still is, carried out by the ministry! I think that they are trying to blame the badgers for other health policy which is failing. Only time will tell what the real story is! I also agree with what you say about foot and mouth Ft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 It effects farmers very badly. Not just themselfs, but their whole family. Marrige break ups are high when their is no money to go around and the whole bussiness colapses. The worst iv seen get effected is small farmers, whos whole lively totally depends on their cattle. TB in cattle and badgers is very bad news indeed, if badgers were not culled, TB would be like foot and mouth, but worse, us fellow humans would be in trouble too. Frank. Hi Frank, unfortunately us humans are in trouble (not because of badgers) TB was pretty much eradicated in the uk by the end of the 1950's due to inoculation programmes. Immigration is actually the biggest cause of general TB spread in the UK. Many other countries carry out chest screening on immigrants to reduce the risk. TB is treatable in humans but has a stigma attached to it. I am not a raving extremist lefty/rightly or other wise politically driven animal. I am suggesting tighter controls on screening. My experience comes from my work in healthcare we have definitely seen an increase of transient TB, and have had to introduce an easy access to treatment programme. Now I am not suggesting for a minute that this has impacted on the overall country side. As generally immigration increases in urban areas where people may find easier access to financial independence. However it is also well know that there is a growing black market for cheap labour.In the larger picture though if human infection rates continue we may have a situation where people whose livelihoods depends on the countryside may be even more suspicious and guarded about who has access to their land. Regards Neil Very true, TB amongs imigrants is on the increase big time and is spreading. Even here at my local town, which is not very big, their is a lot of TB amongst asian familys ect. But, i was refering to TB in the countryside, which is also on the increase big time too. Some cattle dealers i know of, have contracted the desease threw cattle and the cattle have been infected threw infected badgers. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Just a question on deer. If some of them carry TB, how does that effect humans eating them? Does the cooking process kill it off? John When im with freinds who go stalking, i inspect the deer carcass with them for sighns of TB. If they show sighns, we take the carcass straight to the Dept of Agriculture and the area is culled hard for 2 weeks, in know way would i eat the meat. Here is a few links on the subject below John, including some pictures of the infection.: http://michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,160...76392--,00.html http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891316_en_1.htm http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/outdoor_activ...b_factsheet.pdf http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/tracing/deer/index.htm http://www.britishdeersociety.co.uk/PageL2...TBDEFRAResponse http://www.deer-uk.com/suspected_tb_.htm That should keep you busy reading for a while John. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 I'm just glad that I dont have to worry about it just yet. I've only had the one reactor in the last few years and that turned out to be clear. I'm open to the public and TB could potentially close us down. I feel for those farmers that have lost everything. And yes I have favourite cows and would be gutted to lose any of them although my true favourite animals are pigs. I love em, very clever animals. Leeboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 But, i was refering to TB in the countryside, which is also on the increase big time too. Some cattle dealers i know of, have contracted the desease threw cattle and the cattle have been infected threw infected badgers. Frank. Frank, I maybe wrong but I dont think you can catch bovine TB as I think it is species specific and cattle have thier own strain. A bit like calf diptheria, the human form is a worldwide killer but the bovine strain doesn't affect us thankfully. Like I say mate, I could be wrong. I have a strong oppinion but I'm not an authority on the subject. I suspect that if bovine TB were zoonotic (transmitable to humans) then badgers would be long extinct ! regards Leeboy Badgers can, transmit TB to humans, it is zoonotic. I know, from experience about this in my last job. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 But, i was refering to TB in the countryside, which is also on the increase big time too. Some cattle dealers i know of, have contracted the desease threw cattle and the cattle have been infected threw infected badgers. Frank. Frank, I maybe wrong but I dont think you can catch bovine TB as I think it is species specific and cattle have thier own strain. A bit like calf diptheria, the human form is a worldwide killer but the bovine strain doesn't affect us thankfully. Like I say mate, I could be wrong. I have a strong oppinion but I'm not an authority on the subject. I suspect that if bovine TB were zoonotic (transmitable to humans) then badgers would be long extinct ! regards Leeboy Badgers can, transmit TB to humans, it is zoonotic. I know, from experience about this in my last job. Frank. Frank, you are quite right. My last post was ****. I've just been boning up on the subject (thought I'd better had after giving my oppinion) and you are indeed correct. my appologies to you sir regards Leeboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 But, i was refering to TB in the countryside, which is also on the increase big time too. Some cattle dealers i know of, have contracted the desease threw cattle and the cattle have been infected threw infected badgers. Frank. Frank, I maybe wrong but I dont think you can catch bovine TB as I think it is species specific and cattle have thier own strain. A bit like calf diptheria, the human form is a worldwide killer but the bovine strain doesn't affect us thankfully. Like I say mate, I could be wrong. I have a strong oppinion but I'm not an authority on the subject. I suspect that if bovine TB were zoonotic (transmitable to humans) then badgers would be long extinct ! regards Leeboy Badgers can, transmit TB to humans, it is zoonotic. I know, from experience about this in my last job. Frank. Frank, you are quite right. My last post was ****. I've just been boning up on the subject (thought I'd better had after giving my oppinion) and you are indeed correct. my appologies to you sir regards Leeboy No worries Leeboy. Its good to talk and share opinions. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snotty Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 I'd say unlikely to be badger, in my experience they almost invariable dig in to a slope. Foxes don't dig and one sniff would tell you if a fox was in residence anyway. Ordinary bunnies aren't renowned for shifting masonary so I reckon you are up against a were-rabbit. You will need silver bullets, does van Helsing still have a web shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Hi, I don't consder myself lucky when I find they have killed all my chickens or dug under the fences letting the foxes in and their sets are only a 100 yards away from our birds. I wish more people would see them and realise that they are not cute fluffy and harmless. I think that controlled badger digging not baiting, but digging should be brought back as there are too many badgers about. You said that culling drives infected badgers further afield and that they can spread it there as well but previously you had typed there is no proof they spread it to cattle. Sorry if I have interpreted it wrong. FM Ferret Master, it is possible for badgers to transmit TB but its unproven as to wether they are responsible for the current rise in TB reactors in cattle. Deer carry it, and round here there are far more deer than badgers as is the case in a lot of areas. This is why the gov hasn't agreed to a mass culling of badgers despite pressure from farmers. If a badger is eating your chickens have you thought about making your chicken coup badger/fox proof. The badger doesen't know they are your chickens hes just hungry ! Leeboy Badgers are massively powerful animals and virtually impossible to fence out if they want to get in. We have had them smash through 2 layers of plywood to get at poultry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yes I too feel that there is a moral bandwagon to be jumped on here (inserts cross looking smiley... ). I too would like to add some patronising comments for you and would like to issue a lesson on the blindingly obvious.... yes roll up, roll up it's PWF platitude time and you should be aware that: 1. shooting your next door neighbours is illegal (insert concerned looking smiley as if you have in some way suggested that you will be planning on shooting your neighbours notwithstanding that you have at no time mentioned that your neighbours are or will be your quarry ) 2. shooting at a police station with an air gun from 100 yards in June is also very illegal dontcha know (insert shocked smiley to indicate I am telling you some ground breaking news which may otherwise not be apparent to you ) 3. you cannot eat badgers, herons, white rhino or peregrine falcons (insert really really angry looking smiley - yes you committed a cardinal PWF sin - you mentioned a protected species {full stop}. You mentioned a protected species on these forum boards my friend and no matter how sensible and reasonable the post and no matter the context you will receive a barrage of cross, angry and unhappy smilies as if you have already killed, skinned and eaten the last living badger. Bunch of fish wives.... This thread was started with "I have no intention of disturbing or harming the animmal, I am well aware that they are protected, and have advised the land owner of this." Mungler PML, There is a tendency to make as if you far ted in church at times isn't there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hi, We have a large free range chicken pen with a very strong mesh 6ft high and a foot underground but they dig under it. I know the metal you mean but the pen is very big and a big roll would easily go into the high hundreds. I would have an electric fence but the geese would probably manage to roast themselves for dinner on it. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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