dunganick Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Sorry to hear that Nick mate. You say 2 ft low, how is it grouping at 2 ft low? Frank. I never got a chance to do a group But chances are it would have been poor as the scope was at the end of its adjustment for elevation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Sorry to hear that Nick mate. You say 2 ft low, how is it grouping at 2 ft low? Frank. I never got a chance to do a group But chances are it would have been poor as the scope was at the end of its adjustment for elevation Sorry to ask again, but what scope did you say you were using? How do you know its hitting low, can you see the strikes off paper? Is it hitting paper? Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 bushnell banner 6-24x40 the scope is brand new and un prooven, so could well be the culprit However i doubt it. Yep i could see strikes on the paper. Once i wound it all the way up and held over. i have done a little reseach and it seems the howa's can have uneven front/rear mounting points for the mount bases, so require shimming. I will be at a proper range next saturday, so will have all the tools and shims at my disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Check everything Nick, mounts, screws, muzzle ect ect, but i have a feeling its ither the mounting system, or, the scope. Hope you sort it soon. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Have you fitted the correct mounts onto the action Nick. I think mine were the same as the Remington ones so just make sure the one on the front isn’t too thick. causing the front ring to be set high. As for the trigger, be very careful because the safety is part of the trigger mechanism, and if you take too much off the sear engagement the safety won’t engage. Been there, done that and ended up having to make a thicker plunger and drill out the trigger block to accept it. Unless, of course, they have designed the new Howa’s differently. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Have you fitted the correct mounts onto the action Nick. I think mine were the same as the Remington ones so just make sure the one on the front isn’t too thick. causing the front ring to be set high.As for the trigger, be very careful because the safety is part of the trigger mechanism, and if you take too much off the sear engagement the safety won’t engage. Been there, done that and ended up having to make a thicker plunger and drill out the trigger block to accept it. Unless, of course, they have designed the new Howa’s differently. G.M. quite simply with the trigger on mine, if you remove too much travel using the rear screw you cant engage the safety because of a little rod which interfears. You just back the screw off 1/4 of a turn untill it will engage and thats as good as you can get it without starting to hack bits off it. The rings are new leupold rem. 700 rings, both low mounts, both installed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nick, try to see what kind of group you get. Even though its not going where you want it too. If it groups under an inch with 3 shots, then its the scope. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Try swapping the front and rear rings around Nick. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nick, try to see what kind of group you get. Even though its not going where you want it too.If it groups under an inch with 3 shots, then its the scope. Frank. sorry i dont follow your logic there mate it could well be a dodgy set of mounts, just simply pointing the scope in the wrong direction, just because they are dodgy wont make them inaccurate if you get my point. At the moment some range conditions and some shims sounds like the best bet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nick, try to see what kind of group you get. Even though its not going where you want it too. If it groups under an inch with 3 shots, then its the scope. Frank. sorry i dont follow your logic there mate it could well be a dodgy set of mounts, just simply pointing the scope in the wrong direction, just because they are dodgy wont make them inaccurate if you get my point. At the moment some range conditions and some shims sounds like the best bet Ok, best of luck, let us know how you get on then. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nick, try to see what kind of group you get. Even though its not going where you want it too. If it groups under an inch with 3 shots, then its the scope. Frank. sorry i dont follow your logic there mate it could well be a dodgy set of mounts, just simply pointing the scope in the wrong direction, just because they are dodgy wont make them inaccurate if you get my point. At the moment some range conditions and some shims sounds like the best bet Ok, best of luck, let us know how you get on then. Frank. certainly will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Nick, Sorry you're having teething problems with your Howa. If it's anything like mine it will be worth the wait! Re. mod thread, the guy that fitted my T8 didn't want to use 1/2" UNF because you get rid of loads of metal from the fat barrel for no good reason, you have got the varmint haven't you? T8s have a 5/8" UNF option so that's what I've got. My mounts (Leupold STD Rem 700 50016) went straight on (after some shortening of the mounting screws)and brought the scope straight into the centre of the collimator. Have you got a collimator? You can check rough zero instantly and it might give a quicker indication of where your problem is. If you want any bits of mine measuring for comparison let me know. The trigger debate will go on forever! Mine was so bad that you had to use all the adjustment to get it reasonable and then you lose the safety catch. Even though I'm not a huge fan of safety catches, I decided to go for the Timney, it doesn't drop straight in though, it needs filing to fit against the action. Good luck! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 those are the same mounts i have but i didnt need to shorten the screws at all At the moment the most likely sollution seems to be to buy a weaver style rail and some burris signiture rings and then shim as required (nearly 30 thou !) on the back mount. the trouble is.... its all money, which i dont really have And yes mine is the varmint. What action is yours? Short or long? Chris, any chance of a phone number incase i need to pick your brains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Mine is short action 223, similar to yours I think, but stainless laminate. Will PM some contact details. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 here you go fister Next weekend i am going to foultons (as im at bisley anyway) and i have got them to put aside a set of burris signiture rings for me (the ones which attach to leupold bases), so these should allow me not only to install the scope without risking bending it, but also to use their shim system which can allow up to 20 thou +/- in both front and back rings. So in theory i could shim it the equivalent of 40 thou downwards. I will also have the use of a comparitor and lots of bods who know what they are doing with these things. So fingers crossed the burris rings will sort this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 That all looks spot on. Could the scope tube be bent? could the barrel be bent???? we will be swapping my bushnell with my dads meopta this weekend to see if its the scope, and im not sure you you can check for a bent barrel when its got a taper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 i may have found the problem..... pics shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 the problem is that the rear is well lower than the front i took the rear upper part of the mount off (leaving the front ring tightened down) and this is where the scope is in relation to the rear ring. Once you put the rear mount on and tighten down it bends the scope untill it fits nicely but points very high in relation to the barrel. With the rear mount not being used i can quite easily bore sight the scope with about half the range of adjustment in the scope. Much happier now, will try these burris signiture rings this weekend, and if they dont work will pick the brains of the lads in foultons and encourage them to try and fix it there and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Thats great Nick, i hope you have solved your problem, next weekend will tell. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I was very careful to keep the correct tops to each ring and make sure it was the correct way around, so that is correct on my setup The rear base is the same as i have seen fitted on many howa's and even the recomended bases for the howa's overhang by 3 or 4 mm I did not check that the two mounts were level untill a few hours ago, my mistake, but this is the because, i have never found a gun before which requires 30 thou of shimming (thats just over 1mm i believe) Obvioulsy 30thou is more than you can lap. Note also that in the 3 pictures taken the mounts were not tightened down, hense the uneven level of the upper rings. Any constructive criticism for me? none of your suggested methods of assembly will get me 30 thou im affraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Nick Those bases are fine on mine, don't worry about that. I can't work out where your height difference is coming from! What model rings have you got? If you have normal height 1" ones or 30mm High rings, I can measure mine for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 chris, I will give you a ring at about 4 - 5ish tomorrow afternoon once im back from school and we can compare sizes :blink: (mine are the standard Low leupold 1" mounts) i did measure the rings and the rear was larger than the front as it should be, but i cant recall the exact dimensions. Mry... sorry if that last post sounded rude, as you might imagine im a touch anoyed at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 okay i have several answers to answer regarding this on both here and airgun bbs, it seems ive stuck on a post everyone has an answer for Firstly if i placed a straight edge ontop of the reciever then the rear would not touch the straight edge by a long way, so assuming the front part of the reciever is true this would mean the rear mount must be higher than the front (this is where i think my problem lies) I have had someone contact Brian Fox who has encouraged me to talk to him, so i think i will do so despite my displeasure with his previous service. Watch this space...... BTW i used an old airgun scope which was broken to install the front rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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