apache Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 No, but I am questioning where it came from in the first place and how it is more likely to be spread around the country. Holidaying badgers or transported cattle, make your own choice From genetic tracing people gave TB to cattle, cattle gave TB to badgers. Cattle are far more likely to spread the infection greater distances in the country but badgers will transmit the infection locally. The disease also goes to the badgers kidneys so they spread the bacterium wherever they urinate on an infected farm. Isn't this another case of politicians 'knowing' better than science? I was under the impression the weight of scientific opinion suggests that a badger cull will have no effect on bovine TB whatsoever. There's a LOT of good quality scientific evidence that a badger cull (if done properly) will be very effective. It's political pressure that means there aren't a lot more dead badgers already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 From genetic tracing people gave TB to cattle, cattle gave TB to badgers. Cattle are far more likely to spread the infection greater distances in the country but badgers will transmit the infection locally. The disease also goes to the badgers kidneys so they spread the bacterium wherever they urinate on an infected farm. There's a LOT of good quality scientific evidence that a badger cull (if done properly) will be very effective. It's political pressure that means there aren't a lot more dead badgers already. In which case perhaps you can explain why for instance in Ireland where badgers have been culled almost to extinction bovine tb rates are double those over here?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 From genetic tracing people gave TB to cattle, cattle gave TB to badgers. Cattle are far more likely to spread the infection greater distances in the country but badgers will transmit the infection locally. The disease also goes to the badgers kidneys so they spread the bacterium wherever they urinate on an infected farm. There's a LOT of good quality scientific evidence that a badger cull (if done properly) will be very effective. It's political pressure that means there aren't a lot more dead badgers already. It will not work!! Cattle transport will not cease and many other mammals such as hedgehogs and deer can carry the disease. Should we wipe out all of the indigenous wildlife in areas to avoid harm to the farmers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes where appropriate, the only drawback being that stalkers would have to compete for their skills in Scotland. As a point, the new 'dog' And its appropriate no place in the UK the landscape has changed considerably from the last wolf being killed. It hasnt worked in most other places to boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 It will not work!! Cattle transport will not cease and many other mammals such as hedgehogs and deer can carry the disease. Should we wipe out all of the indigenous wildlife in areas to avoid harm to the farmers? Hedgehogs and deer the disease goes to the lungs and therefore is spread by very intimate nose to nose contact. Deer do not get close enough to cattle to be significant in the spread. Hedgehogs are very small and therefore excrete lower bacterial numbers. Badgers urinate TB everywhere. Cattle need to be tested free of TB before they can be moved. The test is not 100% accurate, but is as good as we have at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Because not having any qualification will mean any ******** can shoot them. I know many on here are desperate to shoot badgers, lets face it foxes are getting boring But ask yourselves, do you really want to shoot badgers because they spread TB (and constantly moving cattle round the country doesn't) or just because you want to shoot something you haven't been allowed to up till now I see a lot of people on here who seem to think they are up against the Viet Cong just cos they are shooting a few pigeons and I have to say it doesn't sit well with me as someone who protects crops and maybe gets a few for the pot. I for one will be objecting to a nationwide cull. Consider, the badger has been breeding unchecked for over 20 odd years with complete legal protection. In my own area it is more numerous than the fox and growing by the year. We are a TB free zone but the last foothold of the ground nesting HEN harrier and many other wild and often rare birds. *** do Badgers eat? i want to contol them not wipe them out and yet my hands are tied, if it carries on we will loose far more as a society. The creature has no natural preditor outside of man and we are refusing to do our bit because some stupid townie gitar player and his no-nothing mates think they are cute and rare. Theres more to learn here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 And its appropriate no place in the UK the landscape has changed considerably from the last wolf being killed. It hasnt worked in most other places to boot My point exactly thankou Modern techniques have made it untenable that anything that does not fit in with modern farming/land management be allowed, no matter whether it had first dibs. When all is said and done, is any life worth more than another? If you think yes then you are certainly conceited, if not arrogant. I know that most of the time I would take animals over humans, they are more honest and straightforward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Consider, the badger has been breeding unchecked for over 20 odd years with complete legal protection. In my own area it is more numerous than the fox and growing by the year. We are a TB free zone but the last foothold of the ground nesting HEN harrier and many other wild and often rare birds. *** do Badgers eat? i want to contol them not wipe them out and yet my hands are tied, if it carries on we will loose far more as a society. The creature has no natural preditor outside of man and we are refusing to do our bit because some stupid townie gitar player and his no-nothing mates think they are cute and rare. Theres more to learn here You are TB free, great Change your farming technique to provide more habitats for the birds rather than blaming ther badger for loss of habitat, pushing them into closer proximity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So how accurate is it? The evidence is flimsy and the argument is biased :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I make a few fox traps and would be quite happy to catch a few badgers and relocate them to areas where we dont have any cattle ie around my area there are no cows and a few brocks would be welcome we have woods thats are empty Edited February 8, 2012 by mark@mbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 mark you would be lucky to catch a badger and keep it in a trap,they are very strong animals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Consider, the badger has been breeding unchecked for over 20 odd years with complete legal protection. In my own area it is more numerous than the fox and growing by the year. We are a TB free zone but the last foothold of the ground nesting HEN harrier and many other wild and often rare birds. *** do Badgers eat? i want to contol them not wipe them out and yet my hands are tied, if it carries on we will loose far more as a society. The creature has no natural preditor outside of man and we are refusing to do our bit because some stupid townie gitar player and his no-nothing mates think they are cute and rare. Theres more to learn here i would agree with this - i see more badgers on the land than foxes; but i think people find it very easy to romanticise them - I certainly think there is a strong enough argument to at least try the cull. if we wait for all to agree - it would never happen ; and when you consider the cost to the taxpayer each time cattle are slaughtered due to TB it has got to be worth a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 This is an asymmetrical discussion because your subject knowledge will greatly outstrip mine. I just think that there is very little truly natural habitat left on this island, so no matter what we do it will be man made and artificial. ps. I would like to see the reintroduction of wolves. I'd emphasise the VERY little, we cant opt out of management now. I stated in the last post DSC would be the min qual and was roundly slated....... its great to know everything lolol Isn't this another case of politicians 'knowing' better than science? I was under the impression the weight of scientific opinion suggests that a badger cull will have no effect on bovine TB whatsoever. Doesn't seem to have worked in Ireland does it? The problem with science is that the results tend to give the answers the people funding the research want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 My point exactly thankou Modern techniques have made it untenable that anything that does not fit in with modern farming/land management be allowed, no matter whether it had first dibs. When all is said and done, is any life worth more than another? If you think yes then you are certainly conceited, if not arrogant. I know that most of the time I would take animals over humans, they are more honest and straightforward so taking a life makes you conceited and arrogant ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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