JonathanL Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 A Fixed Penalty Notice is NOT an admission of guilt. You will be issued a FPN by the police for minor offences, but if you feel it unjust you can have your day in court and argue your case. Once you've accepted a caution that option is not open to you. If you accept a FPN and pay the fine then you won't be prosecuted, and no record of the offence will be kept. Of course it's an admission of guilt. A FP is optional just like a caution. You do not have to accept either. If you don't want to accept the FP then you can opt for Court. If you don't want to accept a caution you can opt for Court. The only essential difference is that a FP costs you money - a caution doesn't. You point about FP's not being recorded is clearly bogus. At the very least it is recorded for four years if its a driving offence as they remain on your licence that long. I have no doubt that they will remain on some record that the police have access to somewhere. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 m3vert - pretty sad that your contribution is a cheap jibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Of course it's an admission of guilt. A FP is optional just like a caution. You do not have to accept either. If you don't want to accept the FP then you can opt for Court. If you don't want to accept a caution you can opt for Court. The only essential difference is that a FP costs you money - a caution doesn't. You point about FP's not being recorded is clearly bogus. At the very least it is recorded for four years if its a driving offence as they remain on your licence that long. I have no doubt that they will remain on some record that the police have access to somewhere. J. You're wrong. A fixed penalty will be issued whether you like it or not. You can refuse a caution, you can't refuse a FPN. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/powers/road-traffic/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 You're wrong. A fixed penalty will be issued whether you like it or not. You can refuse a caution, you can't refuse a FPN. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/powers/road-traffic/ No, sorry mate - not often you're right but you're wrong again! A fixed penalty is optional. For it not to be would be a fundemental breach of the ancient assumption that you are innocent before being proved otherwise to the proper legal standard; All proimises of fines and forefeitures before conviction are illegal and void' If your position is correct then you have to accpt that officers of the state may randomly damand fines without having to prove anything at all. You appear not to have even bothered reading your own link. 'If you feel a penalty notice is unjust, you can choose not to pay the fine and argue your case in court' This is why on the form you are given it says 'Conditional offer of a fixed penalty'. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantellissheffield Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 ITS ONLY A CAUTION YOU HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING SO NO YOU DONT NEED TO PUT ANYTHING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 No, sorry mate - not often you're right but you're wrong again! A fixed penalty is optional. For it not to be would be a fundemental breach of the ancient assumption that you are innocent before being proved otherwise to the proper legal standard; All proimises of fines and forefeitures before conviction are illegal and void' If your position is correct then you have to accpt that officers of the state may randomly damand fines without having to prove anything at all. You appear not to have even bothered reading your own link. 'If you feel a penalty notice is unjust, you can choose not to pay the fine and argue your case in court' This is why on the form you are given it says 'Conditional offer of a fixed penalty'. J. A fixed penalty notice is NOT optional. You WILL be issued the FPN, even if you protest your innocence. You may refuse to pay it and go to court, but you WILL be issued it in the first place. You are not given a choice, unlike a caution where you are given the choice to accept or decline it. So it looks like you're wrong - again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 ITS ONLY A CAUTION YOU HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING SO NO YOU DONT NEED TO PUT ANYTHING Nothing like a good shout to get your point across eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) A fixed penalty notice is NOT optional. You WILL be issued the FPN, even if you protest your innocence. You may refuse to pay it and go to court, but you WILL be issued it in the first place. You are not given a choice, unlike a caution where you are given the choice to accept or decline it. So it looks like you're wrong - again. Again, you are wrong. The police officer issues an offer of a fixed penalty - he does not issue the penalty its self, it would be illegal for him to do so as he has no power to penalise someone. I know it seems like he does but that's simply a common public misconception. Even then, I think you can refuse to accept it in which case he will report you for prosecution instead. In addition, it is not a criminal offence to not pay a FP (as far as I'm aware), although it can be enforced civily in the same manner as a fine which is why you can bailiffs at your door to sieze your goods if you don't pay it. All a fixed penalty actually amounts to is a payment by you in order to make the matter go away and not end up with a prosecution - a touch 'banana-republic' but there you go. You always have a choice if you get a FP - that being to pay it or argue the point at Court. J. Edit: From the Road Traffic Ofenders Act 1988; 52 Fixed penalty notices. '(i)In this Part of this Act “fixed penalty notice” means a notice offering the opportunity of the discharge of any liability to conviction of the offence to which the notice relates by payment of a fixed penalty in accordance with this Part of this Act. Edited March 12, 2012 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 For the love of god will the mods please lock/delete this thread. I'm all for a bit of arguing to sort out a disagreement, but this is going nowhere. The mods have shut a few post recently that I didnt think required locking but yet this **** is allowed to carry on. So for a change, to everyone's favourite topic that never causes arguments......................................................................................................................... SNAP CAPS- ARE THEY ANY GOOD................. :o :look: (it's a joke before people start!) :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 For the love of god will the mods please lock/delete this thread. I'm all for a bit of arguing to sort out a disagreement, but this is going nowhere. The mods have shut a few post recently that I didnt think required locking but yet this **** is allowed to carry on. Hush yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 poontang I'm only trying to stop you embarrassing yourself any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 poontang I'm only trying to stop you embarrassing yourself any further. Don't worry about that, I've got broad shoulders. Now hussshhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Nah I am with Browning on this one, its gone round the houses everyone has said their bit. Folks still dont agree and regardless of what is said this debate is going no where!! Probably wont get locked but I've said my bit and aint going to take the bait to respond so I'm out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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