al4x Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Firstly i must say that I have never been on a game shoot. But, surely the answer to the question of ducks flushing on a pheasant drive, is that the shoot bans the shooting of those duck, in the same way that they ban shooting of say Grey partridge on some shoots. Obviously they could have a dedicated duck 'drive' and then swap to non-toxic carts...or is that too simple? The same applies if you shoot pigeons within 300 yards of a pond, lead will still enter the water which apparently is bad. Scottish law makes more sense ours doesn't. But I have a feeling because it stands to get the fight over faster there won't be any concessions made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I understand your point Al4x, but if this were so, how do we show compliance with the regulations without the active policing of shooters by some ‘independent body’ (which was in the original proposals back in the 90’s) David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 one thing you couldn't do is test ducks at the dealers which wouldn't be such a bad thing, the "independant body" set up would have been killed off by now with government cuts and the issue would be dead in the water so to speak. It is pretty fundamental though that when you can use lead over a pond while shooting other quarry and have to switch to non toxic for ducks that there is no real point in it whatsoever in terms of stopping lead poisoning if it is happening its not exactly well thought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Who said the independent body would have been paid for by the government, I could imagine several 'conservation' bodies falling over themselves to 'help'!! Edited October 12, 2012 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) The writing is on the wall for the phasing out of lead is clearly on the wall. We can kick and scream all we want , public opinion is against it , the EU is against it and sooner or later when they see there are votes in it so will the government of the day be against it. Its an easy way to bolster their green image and do not forget the party in power at the moment has been responsible for almost all the anti shooting laws in the past , despite their claims to support shooting. Its true older game guns will not handle steel loads , but then wildfowlers were in the same position 10 years ago. What did they do ? Went out and bought guns that will handle non toxic loads. And if you can afford to shoot with a £10,000 Purdy , pay £100s on a days game shoot , tip the keeper £50 at the end of the day then the extra cost of a few boxes of Bismuth adds very little to the costs of a days shooting. At the moment one of the reasons why Bismuth is so expensive is because there is little demand for it. Once the demand rises then economy of scale comes into play and it should become cheaper. You can see this in the price difference between clay and game loads today.Wildfowlers went through the same arguments kicking and screaming ( I screamed as loud as most ) but have now learned to shoot steel properly and found it will do almost anything lead will do given the right loads as a very long range goose found to its cost last night. This whole argument is very damaging to shooting in the publics eye and does the shooting community as a whole no favours at a time when we need to be seen to be squeaky clean to the public if our shooting if going to continue into the future. We had a choice comply with the laws on non toxic shot or lose toxic lead shot. Game shooters seem on the whole to have made that choice and will now have to pay the price. Learn to shoot steel properly and it will do almost anything lead will do given the right loads , right pellet size and right chokes. Steel is a very differnt beast to shoot than lead. Once mastered it does a good job and over the last few years I have shot 100s of pheasants , partridges , pigeons and other quarry with it in addition to a very large number of wildfowl with steel. Edited October 12, 2012 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelhall Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The law inEngland on lead shot is an *** and needs bringing in line with Scotland. We all know if you can shoot a pheasant and a duck on the same peg with lead and one is leagal and the other illeagal is stupid. The pheasant and duck dont know the differance, and it is it OK to poison pheasant eaters but not duck eaters with lead. Make the law sensible and people are more likely to obey it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Would it not be easier to just ban game shooting? That way wildfowl would be shot legally, and raptors would be safe too. There we go...sorted. That doesnt even come across as tongue in cheek ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 That doesnt even come across as tongue in cheek ! Maybe it wasn't meant to be tongue in cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 what sort of shooting do you do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 what sort of shooting do you do ? Wildfowling with non toxic shot, pigeon shooting and occasionally clays with lead shot. How about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Wildfowling with non toxic shot, pigeon shooting and occasionally clays with lead shot. How about you? All sorts, mainly rough shooting, bit of fowling and pigeons........... cba with clays though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 you ought to try gameshooting poontang it might quieten a few of your prejudices, you might even enjoy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 you ought to try gameshooting poontang it might quieten a few of your prejudices, you might even enjoy it I agree.......... try and find a decent bunch of lads though. For the record am not a fan of driven shooting but wouldnt decry those who are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 you ought to try gameshooting poontang it might quieten a few of your prejudices, you might even enjoy it I've been offered a few times but it's of no interest to me whatsoever. That's not to say I begrudge those who do shoot game though. My earlier comments were a bit flippant, but don't take that to mean I'm anti game shooting...I'm not. It's no secret that I'm vehemently opposed to a lead shot ban, even though it wouldn't affect me personally a great deal. My gun will handle the biggest steel loads going, so really I shouldn't give a damn...but I do. And the reason I do is I don't want to see ANY type of extra restrictions placed on gun ownership/use, and a ban on lead would affect game shooters more than anyone. I spend quite a lot of time defending game shooting in all its forms, and the benefits it can bring to the economy and the land, on a host of anti shooting websites. What I can't, and won't defend though are the illegal practices taking place on some shoots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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