Redgum Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is the fact that fallow bucks seem to be getting less just a local thing to me. Over the last few years the buck population seems to be falling. Bucks have a lower life expectancy than does naturally and I'm sure its fair to say that a lot of sporting stalkers will take a decent buck over a sorrel or pricket if they get the chance. Is this the result of the boom in trophy hunting, on the plus side though doe numbers have increased. A buck in the rut will usually be tainted by the testosterone and I find the antlers a little chewy, does are much better for the pot. Be nice to see a few stalkers resist the temptation and sling the rifle back over the shoulder and let the master bucks go about their business under observation with the bino's. No finer sight on a frosty morning in an autumnal woodland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouch valley Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Redgum how true a word spoken why some stalkers want to shoot a big buck just for his antlers is beyond me. I would rather have a prickett or a doe for the freezer any time. You will probably find they are seeing pound signs from the game dealer or just inexperienced stalkers. Its amazeing how many people think they are exsperianced only after shooting a handful of deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Redgum how true a word spoken why some stalkers want to shoot a big buck just for his antlers is beyond me. I would rather have a prickett or a doe for the freezer any time. You will probably find they are seeing pound signs from the game dealer or just inexperienced stalkers. Its amazeing how many people think they are exsperianced only after shooting a handful of deer. It is a wonder what makes some people tick, think a gold medal fallow buck is worth alot more pennies that the venison value for sure. To me the value of being sat on a wet mossy stump observing a big fellow bellowing out a lung full of steam on a frozen morning is something that a head mounted on the wall can come no where near. These bucks need to be left alone as they hold the genes to keep the populations healthy and strong. A little more management and a little less willy waving and we would all benefit. After all a rutting buck isnt exactly a difficult stalk. Edited October 28, 2012 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Surely the young bucks in the area will have essentially the same genetics as the master bucks? And by the time the master bucks get to that stage they will also have passed their genetics on anyway. If you shot the master buck and then the younger bucks would pass on similar genetics..... ps I dont stalk fallow, just an opinion. I think food/mineral availability is equally as important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Surely the young bucks in the area will have essentially the same genetics as the master bucks? And by the time the master bucks get to that stage they will also have passed their genetics on anyway. If you shot the master buck and then the younger bucks would pass on similar genetics..... ps I dont stalk fallow, just an opinion. I think food/mineral availability is equally as important. Think you need to watch a few episodes of Natural planet or something, why do males fight for the right to mate. Shoot the master buck and the infill of younger bucks will certainly do a good job with the tree pruning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 yeah but I wasn't talking about the trees. I was referring more to, "These bucks need to be left alone as they hold the genes to keep the populations healthy and strong". Generally most of the young bucks will have come from your master buck,(being very simplistic). So shooting the largest buck in the area isn't going to really affect the genetics as most of the young bucks will have descended from it anyway. I'm not saying it's good management to shoot all the large deer btw. But if I saw a large stag for example, I would never consider leaving it to 'pass on it's genetics' as by the time it has got to that age, it will have done so anyway. But I agree that sometimes it is nice to watch something rather than just shoot everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 yeah but I wasn't talking about the trees. I was referring more to, "These bucks need to be left alone as they hold the genes to keep the populations healthy and strong". Generally most of the young bucks will have come from your master buck,(being very simplistic). So shooting the largest buck in the area isn't going to really affect the genetics as most of the young bucks will have descended from it anyway. I'm not saying it's good management to shoot all the large deer btw. But if I saw a large stag for example, I would never consider leaving it to 'pass on it's genetics' as by the time it has got to that age, it will have done so anyway. But I agree that sometimes it is nice to watch something rather than just shoot everything. And thats the reason there are less bucks, trophy hunters and lack of knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 the other reason is a dodgy cull plan potentially if you have all the young upcoming bucks shot before heads develop how are you going to have larger ones about? The problem comes in that very few people with fallow have the ability to have a proper cull plan as the deer don't exist solely on their ground, there obviously does come a point where if you don't shoot them they die anyway so there is middle ground Round here its rare to have decent heads but we have the odd ones about at the moment, I've got two that are quite reasonable about that have been left and are rutting hard certainly last week, be interesting to see if they are making so much noise when I'm out tonight as it was pretty amazing last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 the other reason is a dodgy cull plan potentially if you have all the young upcoming bucks shot before heads develop how are you going to have larger ones about? The problem comes in that very few people with fallow have the ability to have a proper cull plan as the deer don't exist solely on their ground, there obviously does come a point where if you don't shoot them they die anyway so there is middle ground Round here its rare to have decent heads but we have the odd ones about at the moment, I've got two that are quite reasonable about that have been left and are rutting hard certainly last week, be interesting to see if they are making so much noise when I'm out tonight as it was pretty amazing last week. Great time of year to watch fallow bucks al4x, I suppose its just one of those things, fallow roam and a nice buck will present itself to someone who takes the opportunity to bag it. I'm into my second year of culling fallow for Natural England and spend more time observing than on the ground culling. It has been a real education into the life of deer and you soon notice 'who doesnt turn up'. I have no interest in trophy's but like to eat venison and do enjoy shooting deer. Many of the good bucks ' dissappear' at the time when they are an easy target which is a shame but thats how it is. Luckily the ground I look after is on the edge of the Forest of Dean which has a big herd of deer, no doupt some pushed out new blood will find its way to my lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) Next door's guns for hire have shot out nearly all the decent bucks over the last couple of seasons. Then the landowner next door "mopped up" a lot of the prickets to leave two very panicky large groups of does which are incredibly difficult to get near these days. They even had the bloody cheek to put a high seat 25 yds from the boundary and think it's fine to track anything wounded over this with out any permission whatsoever!! How happy I was last Saturday morning to see a real big fellow move onto my patch and in my mind he's welcome to stay as long as he likes. There is hope but some people just haven't got a clue!! Edited November 5, 2012 by Gillaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Next door's guns for hire have shot out nearly all the decent bucks over the last couple of seasons. Then the landowner next door "mopped up" a lot of the prickets to leave two very panicky large groups of does which are incredibly difficult to get near these days. They even had the bloody cheek to put a high seat 25 yds from the boundary and think it's fine to track anything wounded over this with out any permission whatsoever!! How happy I was last Saturday morning to see a real big fellow move onto my patch and in my mind he's welcome to stay as long as he likes. There is hope but some people just haven't got a clue!! Its all about the pennies to some isnt it, whats a medal buck worth at the moment. Many landowners see fallow as a non native species so don't care if they are shot out completly as long as they can make a buck before they are gone. Talking to a mate who has a pretty nice patch and he reckons that once deer leave a wood and the scent goes it stays barren for years. On my patch there is a huge rutting stand high up in the woods, the soil has been banked up around a square boulder, been used for many years, not this year though. Deer are survivors though,they have been hunted for hundreds of years and they are still about, just trophy hunting seems a little sad,especially when the bucks act so stupid during the rut. It was thought that all the Red deer in the Forest of Dean had been shot but rangers are still picking up tracks and photo's on stealth cams, just due to hunting pressure they are totally nocturnal, god knows where they lie up in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Unfortunately Redgum this isn't even a money thing as it's just supply of carcasses. All it comes down to is greed and stupidity. If the rights next door were for sale we'd have them for sure but it will be a very long time before this happens if ever. To sum it up, I've had this patch for 25 years but give someone a few questions to answer, a bit of Target practice, a DSC1 and a FAC next door and I'm knackered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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