aris Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) It isn't unconstitutional because the constitution allows for people like convicted criminals to have their rights infringed. If it didn't then the USA wouldn't be allowed to ever send anyone to prison. J. The united states isn't one country, it is 50 - all with different rules. Some states already require licensing and or registration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state All unconstitutional? Edited February 14, 2013 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Fair point - my mistake, but let's not get too carried away. Correction: it doesn't take a repeal of the constitution, but an amendment to it. The two are not the same. Nonsense: you can't call something 'propaganda' merely on the flimsy basis that you might disagree with it. With the exception of the Northern Irish dog license, find one example of something I've posted here which you can dispute using impartial, reliable (i.e. not from the NRA, FOX 'News' or other similar partisan voodoo) sources - seeing as a number here seem to think that merely by offering an ill-informed or unsupported opinion they can have any credibility. Can you please provide a verifiable, non-NRA source for this claim? I have given you three sources and told you one is extremely good and well researched. Duns and Violence by Joyce Lee Malcolm This is a book on the history of firearms control in the UK Firearms Control by Colin Greenwood (Chief Inspector) Very well researched and readable history of firearms control in the UK and by a serving police officer no less! Targeting Guns by Gary Kleck I found this book hard work, it is very academic(not enough picturs!). It is a study of firearms control in the USA It has very good individual chapters on 'sensible controls' like assult rifles, high cap magazines etc. A basic summary is that these are emotional controls, for instance assault rifles are not a crime problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Fair point - my mistake, but let's not get too carried away. Correction: it doesn't take a repeal of the constitution, but an amendment to it. The two are not the same. Nonsense: you can't call something 'propaganda' merely on the flimsy basis that you might disagree with it. With the exception of the Northern Irish dog license, find one example of something I've posted here which you can dispute using impartial, reliable (i.e. not from the NRA, FOX 'News' or other similar partisan voodoo) sources - seeing as a number here seem to think that merely by offering an ill-informed or unsupported opinion they can have any credibility. Can you please provide a verifiable, non-NRA source for this claim? Actually, technically, a repeal and an amendment are pretty damn close - you have to remove the old and add a new, but you do that at the same point and it becomes... an amendment. I am not playing your stupid 'evidence' game. I believe in evidence completely, but the simple FACT is that there is NO impartial evidence here. Statistics can be shown to prove anything. Therefore, if you you can post anti-gun stats, we can post pro-gun stats. The point is very simple indeed - more than one set of figures exists. There are no impartial publications so each set of figures and studies shows very clearly, whatever the person doing the study wants to show. Therefore, it is impossible for me to give you anti-gun figures saying that guns are the best thing ever, and it is impossible for you to give me pro-gun figures saying guns are the anti-Christ. I accept that, it's par for the course., You are left with opinion. Which is fine - that's debate for you. What is not fine is to come along and say "You got your figures from someone I don't like! So they are meaningless and you are wrong and you have no useful information whatsoever" Quite frankly, it's very juvenile to do so, very annoying and a waste of everyone's time. Every society has scale - I live in Daventry, but I also live in England, and the UK, and Europe, and the World. Each region has a different set of figures for gun crime. Each region can be used as a pro or anti gun crime statistic. What does it prove? NOTHING! it comes down to common sense - if I want to kill someone, I will kill them. If I don't, I won't. The item matters not a jot. So, do I support measures to help mental health? Yes absolutely - forget guns, how is this anything but a good thing? Do I support licensing measures for people? Personally yes, but not in the USA because it is unconstitutional. However, background checks are always a good thing - they do not infringe on a person's rights, unless there has been due process to do so. There is no harm in it. But would I ever support banning firearms? No, never. Because gun misuse, like alcohol misuse or whatever, is only a symptom of a problem in society. Fix that, get respect for people working well, and you know what, you solve the problem! That isn't statistics. You can't prove that because nobody's done it; to prove the theory requires the real change that nobody will do. So you know what, I can't prove it. But that doesn't mean it isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 The united states isn't one country, it is 50 - all with different rules. Some states already require licensing and or registration. http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state All unconstitutional? Registration is not unconstitutional; nowhere does it say the Arms must be anonymous. Licensing is. Banning them is debatable, hence the debate going on at the moment. personally I believe it is unconstitutional, because it is the slippery slope to what we have in the UK and that is not acceptable in the US (good!) and because such firearms are required for that Militia - back in the day, the Militia had the same type of weapons as the regulars, up to a point. Therefore this ethos is the spirit of the amendment and thus should be adhered to, making any assault weapon ban unconstitutional. Americans seem good at passing laws which are illegal - see under the recent change to permit the detention of US citizens on US soil, indefinitely and without charge, by their military. Does rather contradict the constitution and some people are now fighting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have a copy of Guns and Violence "The debate before Lord Cullen" by RAI Munday & JA Stevenson if any one wants to make me an offer. In excellent condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Can you please provide a verifiable, non-NRA source for this claim? Look at the Supreme Court evidence and data. Background checks cannot be stored. Stop playing the so called "Devil's Advocate" you are unashamedly anti-gun and are being exposed on this forum for your filthy tactics. You should be ashamed of yourself, that is if you have any shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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