Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 If there's no legal obligation then why would he need to see it - going by your posts you can just tell him you have made the correct provisions for storage couldn't you.... No legal need for him to see them. It's a wonder we have all the threads on mounting cabinets - at least you can now answer them telling them to state "I don't need a cabinet" Regards, Gixer So you think the only reason any FEO wants to inspect your cabinet is to see if you have more in it than the manufactures suggests and then he is going to remove all your Firearms and take you to court. What are you on tonight gizer? You DON'T need a CABINET, why don't you read the FUZZY Firearms Acts and the Security Handbook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 WRONG, no legal requirement, show me the section in the fuzzy Firearms Act that says he has to clear your cabinets capacity! It's ability to safely contain a firearm - it's CAPACITY to hold the firearm - if you can't fit the friggin thing in then it isn't much use is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) So you think the only reason any FEO wants to inspect your cabinet is to see if you have more in it than the manufactures suggests and then he is going to remove all your Firearms and take you to court. What are you on tonight gizer? You DON'T need a CABINET, why don't you read the FUZZY Firearms Acts and the Security Handbook! I don't need to thanks and no - I did not say he only wants to see if it holds what the manufacturer suggests - he wants to ensure it will fit all the guns you have though, if he finds you can't fit all the guns in and you are keeping some in your mums kitchen cupboard then I think the capacity maybe mentioned when it comes to court - don't you?? Edited February 3, 2013 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 It's ability to safely contain a firearm - it's CAPACITY to hold the firearm - if you can't fit the friggin thing in then it isn't much use is it? gizer, you really have got tunnel vision, buy another cabinet if it gets full, it isn't rocket science, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, it is not down to a whim of the FEO to tell you how many guns you can fit in any cabinet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 gizer, you really have got tunnel vision, buy another cabinet if it gets full, it isn't rocket science, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, it is not down to a whim of the FEO to tell you how many guns you can fit in any cabinet! Dickarse, You seem to be misunderstanding, so we'll leave it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I don't need to thanks and no - I did not say he only wants to see if it holds what the manufacturer suggests - he wants to ensure it will fit all the guns you have though, if he finds you can't fit all the guns in and you are keeping some in your mums kitchen cupboard then I think the capacity maybe mentioned when it comes to court - don't you?? What are you on? see above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 This thread's got me a bit worried. My cabinet is a three gun cabinet (and was advertised as a three gun cabinet) but I can clearly remember the FLO writing down that it had a two gun capacity during my interview. I currently have two shotguns and there's another one on the way this week. I didn't think that capacity was an issue as long as the guns were securely stored. Does this mean that I will be expecting a phone call or visit from my FLO because I have gone 'over capacity??? You may get a phone call, sometimes their system will flag up and they'll contact you. Simply tell them that it is actually a larger cabinet, if they feel a need they can come out and check you've got all guns locked away - that should solve their problem. If you like you could remove the foam insert and tell them it holds 20 guns - after all, the ONLY thing that gives them an actual number for the capacity is the foam. The good reason would be to allow the FEO some give or take on matters.... The vague descriptions are most certainly open to interpretations....if you can't see that I suggest you read them again! Glad you educated the southern police force. Congrats. You can say you don't take bull all you like but that wouldn't stop anyone taking your guns, if you believe that you are simply being naive - the usual course of action is that if any doubt is in place then guns are removed and you have to prove you are safe to get them back. And needing a cabinet is not what this is about - its showing you can accommodate or safely secure a firearm - that was my point, if the FEO sees you have a cabinet that would hold 5 guns and you buy 15 he WILL ask questions. My local FEO is not "flexing" anything - he applies common sense - something I fear is in short supply in some comments. Guns in the UK are a privilege - not a right... Regards, Gixer If a cabinet is 'rated' for 5 guns (i.e has inserts for 5) then why should anyone care if you put 15 in? Provided they fit in and it can be locked securely what difference does it make - is the cabinet less secure for holding more firearms? It's fine for one or an infinate number. Are you seriously suggesting that a certificate could be revoked for putting more firearms in a cabinet than there are foam cut-outs for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 You may get a phone call, sometimes their system will flag up and they'll contact you. Simply tell them that it is actually a larger cabinet, if they feel a need they can come out and check you've got all guns locked away - that should solve their problem. If you like you could remove the foam insert and tell them it holds 20 guns - after all, the ONLY thing that gives them an actual number for the capacity is the foam. If a cabinet is 'rated' for 5 guns (i.e has inserts for 5) then why should anyone care if you put 15 in? Provided they fit in and it can be locked securely what difference does it make - is the cabinet less secure for holding more firearms? It's fine for one or an infinate number. Are you seriously suggesting that a certificate could be revoked for putting more firearms in a cabinet than there are foam cut-outs for? No - I'm suggesting if you go over the physical capacity of the cabinet - not the manufacturers capacity....Christ on a bike! If the FEO visits your house and see's a nice new 5 gun cabinet and says "oh, you'd get 7 guns in there" and then see's dickars has bought 10 he will most likely call and ask him if he needs to buy another cabinet - as he has probably gone over the capacity... Regards, Gizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Yes - but your FEO would need to clear it - usually he sets the capacity as the manufacturers are a little conservative, I have 1 that is a 3 gun cleared for 5 or 6 and a 5 gun cleared for 8 I think! Regards, Gixer Dickarse, You seem to be misunderstanding, so we'll leave it there gizer, there is nothing to misunderstand, your post above is incorrect in law and you have spent most of the rest of this thread avoiding the questions, bending the subject and suggesting others are wrong and crawl at their FEO's feet or will end up in court. My FEO is welcome to inspect my cabinet and the firearms it contains at any time, just as he is welcome to inspect the 2 additional cabinets I installed he knew nothing about until his last visit! He said NOTHING, didn't question anything, didn't remove any guns and didn't take me to court, why would he, I have complied with every requirement of the Firearms acts and my guns are stored securely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Dickarse, I have avoided nothing and answered every question so far from what I can see... If you go over the physical capacity of the cabinet you will not be able to store the guns safely. Also the bit about installing cabinets and no need for the FEO to look at them - then why did he?? If there is no need why look at them at all? Edited February 3, 2013 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Third bullet point down....correct me if I'm wrong but the word "capacity" is in there...right?. Edited February 3, 2013 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Dickarse, I have avoided nothing and answered every question so far from what I can see... FUZZY... How about the part where your FEO has to clear the capacity of your cabinet! If you go over the physical capacity of the cabinet you will not be able to store the guns safely. What has that got to do with your original incorrect post at #2 Also the bit about installing cabinets and no need for the FEO to look at them - then why did he?? see below If there is no need why look at them at all? Because I was renewing my coterminous and he wanted to check all my rifles and shotguns, many of which had been brought in the previous 15 years and taken me way over the capacity of my original 3 gun cabinet, which was NOT checked (for 15 years), when I moved house, when I sold it and got a bigger cabinet or when I got 2 more cabinets, or at any time when my gun tally was steadily mounting way over the capacity of my 3 gun cabinet! It is NOT his job to clear my storage capacity it is mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Third bullet point down....correct me if I'm wrong but the word "capacity" is in there...right?. What has that got to do with him clearing the capacity of any cabinet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 To the op. the best thing to do is just give your FEO a call, that's why he/she is there. My personal opinion is if the door shuts and locks then it doesn't matter how many are in as long as they are safely stored but like any responsible cert holder, edge on the side of caution. My FEO is a friendly bloke and said anytime I have a question feel free to ring him, I suggest you do the same. That's why they give you their card with a phone number on it. ATB 425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Because I was renewing my coterminous and he wanted to check all my rifles and shotguns, many of which had been brought in the previous 15 years and taken me way over the capacity of my original 3 gun cabinet, which was NOT checked (for 15 years), when I moved house, when I sold it and got a bigger cabinet or when I got 2 more cabinets, or at any time when my gun tally was steadily mounting way over the capacity of my 3 gun cabinet! It is NOT his job to clear my storage capacity it is mine! See above, argue with the official document. You've just proved you have no idea what you are talking about on this as it is in my last post in black and white isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 What has that got to do with him clearing the capacity of any cabinet? So his notes on what he is supposed to do, and the fact that he has to view the capacity has nothing to do with him clearing it? Why do they want him to check it then? You have been smoking crack haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 On my last variation put through, adding a couple of rifles, my FEO called me to let me know that there was no problem with the variation, but the number of firearms currently held matched the capacity of my safe. I was told I had to get a larger safe, or add another one before they would release my variation back to me, which I did. If it's actually true that you cannot physically fit another gun in your safe then fair enough. If you can indeed fit another one in then they can't force you to buy another safe. As I say, just because the company who made the safe says it's a three gun doesn't mean that it's only a three gun safe. If you can fit twenty in it then its a twenty gun safe. J. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 See above, argue with the official document. You've just proved you have no idea what you are talking about on this as it is in my last post in black and white isn't it? I did, see #38, and just for the record, he is welcome to make as many notes as he likes, including the possible size/capacity of any given cabinet, that is nothing to do with him clearing the capacity of any cabinet! Just which part that you have posted in black and white says............... Yes - but your FEO would need to clear it - usually he sets the capacity as the manufacturers are a little conservative, I have 1 that is a 3 gun cleared for 5 or 6 and a 5 gun cleared for 8 I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 So his notes on what he is supposed to do, and the fact that he has to view the capacity has nothing to do with him clearing it? Why do they want him to check it then? Haven't we already done this, how about to see if it meets appropriate standards, how about to see if its secure, how about to see if you actually use it, he does NOT have to clear it for any specific capacity of guns! You have been smoking crack haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Correct - but I'm sure the persons above will tell the FEO to sod off when he calls to tell them this ... regardless of what is written down most feo's I have ever come across inspect cabinets and say a number. I'm all for people who stick to the letter of the law but I'd be willing to bet everyone of the posters on here are more than compliant with whatever their FEO says regardless of what is written down. My FEO is a sensible human and isn't as much concerned with the rules as he is ensuring my guns are safely locked away and I have taken reasonable precautions to prevent people getting to them. Certain people can rattle off all the laws and stipulations they want but it won't change a thing, firearms regulations were written to be slightly fuzzy and open to interpretation with good reason. Regards, Gixer No they weren't. They were written to control firearms; the fact that they are sometimes not up to the job is because they were enacted by people who know very little about firearms and are more interested in their political carreers than getting the job done corectly..Besides, there is no legal 'rule' that says a three gun cabinet is only a three gun cabinet. As to being 'complient', I have no intention of adhering to something which is not correct and, as you say, the police are generally quite reasonable about things. Last time I had a renewal the lady who came round looked at my cabinets and realised that I can actually store a lot more than the 'capacity' of the cbinets. She put me down for being able to store 20 firearms. If I ever have reason to exceed that and they want to query it then fair enough, they can come round and I can show them 21 guns locked in my cabinets. If I find I'm getting close to 20 and can get another one in then I'll buy another cabinet or otherwise alter my security arrangements. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 By all means come back and have another word on the deliberately fuzzy worded Firearms Acts, I have an appointment with a problem fox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Try telling the FEO he cannot see your cabinet next time he visits and see what he says... Where did I say I wouldn't let them see my security? Anyway, that's not 'clearing' your cabinets as being able to hold X number of guns. It's checking what your security actually consists of. Quite properly, if you hav no security then they have a genuine reason to refuse you as not being able to secure your guns is likely to pose a risk to the public and would would never be able to meet the statutory safe keeping condition which is always applied to certificates. Once again, there is no law you break by buying more guns than the maker of your cabinet says it can hold. As I have mentined, I store five or six guns in a three gun cabinet without problems and I break no law in doing so. If I were to go out and buy 30 shotguns tomorrow and I could get them all in my cabinets then I do not commit any offence, even though the licensing department have me down as being able to store 20. J. Edited February 4, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 This thread's got me a bit worried. My cabinet is a three gun cabinet (and was advertised as a three gun cabinet) but I can clearly remember the FLO writing down that it had a two gun capacity during my interview. I currently have two shotguns and there's another one on the way this week. I didn't think that capacity was an issue as long as the guns were securely stored. Does this mean that I will be expecting a phone call or visit from my FLO because I have gone 'over capacity??? I very much doubt it and you are in no way breaking the law. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 You have two choices - 1) call him and tell him and he'll probably say "no problem" 2) when he calls tell him a guy off a forum told you to tell him it's none if his business as long as they are secure... In the interests of science please try number 2) and let us all k ow how it goes. Again, you are attributing things to people that they have not said. You are twisting things in your mind, I think. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I don't need to thanks and no - I did not say he only wants to see if it holds what the manufacturer suggests - he wants to ensure it will fit all the guns you have though, if he finds you can't fit all the guns in and you are keeping some in your mums kitchen cupboard then I think the capacity maybe mentioned when it comes to court - don't you?? But you said he had to 'clear' it. He does not. By saying that it means that it is a requirement that you cannot store more than it has been 'cleared' for and if you do then you commit an ofence. That is rubbish. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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