Conygree Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 You will always get a good responce with the 177-22 debate. good luck and good shooting. to make practice a bit of fun for my son I made a hunter target course with cans and 12g cases in a wood, shooting can be boring sitting under a tree in the rain. One tip with pigeons in trees if your shot is obstructed by branchs or too far, just use it as a decoy and more will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipper Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I always worry with second hand items though, I am going to phone the farmer today, see whether he minds me practicing with targets on the land first, then move onto shooting quarry. Also found a local game dealer so taking heed from earlier advice i can sell anything onto them. Once again, thanks guys. You lads have been really helpful and given me some great advice, oh but sorry for starting the .1177 or .22 debate again! I know what you mean I try to save up cash untill I can afford to buy new but it is not allways possible. But if you buy new on the £150 budget a Air rifle a scope and a silencer you will only get cheap unreliable **** and if you get into shooting you will be replacing it in the near future. Buy the right tool for the job first time arround if you can. it will be cheaper in the long run. Xmas is comming fast that could help boost your budget. or in my case drain all my cash Good luck mate kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 found a local BSA Lightning with scope and silncer £165 second hand what you guys reckon? Should i snap it up? Also the farmer says i can come up and basically have free roam over the land including target shooting! Altho he thinks an air rifle is not powerful enough to have any success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 found a local BSA Lightning with scope and silncer £165 second hand what you guys reckon? Should i snap it up? Also the farmer says i can come up and basically have free roam over the land including target shooting! Altho he thinks an air rifle is not powerful enough to have any success! Go and buy it now before it goes and prove the farmer wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Just brought it! Its a BSA Lightning (a few marks on stock, but fires like new!) with a 3-9x50 Tasco sight! The gun and scope cost £165 and for a extra £30 i got a BSA Padded Gun Case, 500 .22 BSA Elites (practice pellets), 500 .22 RWS Super H Points , 25 Bisley Targets all for £195! Just took 2 shots in the back garden, using a roses tin to both hold the target and serve as a backstop alongside a brick wall just incase. Shot from about 15m not far but in the dark with a new gun both hit the target off centre as in not even within the rings however both shots were less than 1/2 a inch apart. My conclusion, is that the shooting was quite accurate due to the groupings however the lack of calibration on the sights caused the shots to be way off the rings of the target. As for the roses tin, well the practice pellets just flew straight through it, punching a straight whole through the tin! I am so shocked, the power is amazing. After shooting my friend's B2 i know they are **** but it barely got through the tin in fact most did not! I am so pleased with my purchase, the silencer was good all you could hear was the spring & piston noises. As for the farm i will be going on wednesday to pracctice shoot, assuming my groupings are good i may even move into some quarry shootings. I am so glad i went with the BSA, although second hand it does the business and is far superior to the SMK XS19 or even a GAMO 440. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 does anyone know of any good sources for fieldcraft? websites and books would be good, espically the first. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 does anyone know of any good sources for fieldcraft? Join the army! Seriously though, I have not found any websites that really deal with fieldcraft. But that's not to say they don't exist. The only way to learn is use common sense and then go out practice and learn from mistakes. Rabbits do not see in colour but can detect movement very well, even during half light. It's natures trade off. Pigeons have excellent all round colour and movement vision but can't smell you very well. Thje same with corvids. Try to exploit each quarry's weakness and use it to your advantage. Just watch out or............. SHAPE SHINE SILLOUHETTE SMELL and NOISE. Keep those in check and you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Just brought it! Its a BSA Lightning What is wrong with this man? He has asked a question, listened to our advice and then acted on it! Not the usual actions of people on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 I am so so so glad i did act on it! Comparing the Lightning to other chinese made smk's i was going to orginally buy and well its a different league all together. Now just itching to take it down the farm, which prob wont happen till wednesday! :@ Anyway i am loving it and my friend wants a look at the gun, he owns a B2 so i think he is in for a bit of a shock! I have told him basically that if he wants to come shooting down the farm he needs a new gun! Preferably BSA/Webley/HWK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipper Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Nice one Nadda. Im glad you like the gun. all you need to do now is get to now the gun and its limits. When you get to the farm set some targets up at 20-25 and 30 yards. and practice untill you are getting groups of pellets within 20-25mm. then move on to some live quarry when you are confident. Good luck and enjoy. KIPPER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken15 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Hey. I have been airgunning for quite a bit now, but I could use some help on something, seeing your all experianced hunters. I have an older edition Benjamin Sheridan, caliber .20 and it is an extremely accurate gun, if you know how to shoot it. Anyways, I have been considering putting a scope on it. Is this a good idea or should i stick to open sites? Thanks, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Full marks for you keeping with the iron sights, within 30 yds most of us would probably struggle to hit stuff without our optics In my view any rifle is worth scoping up, it will help and will probably have you shooting more accurately. Given the ranges you will be shooting at the scope doesn't have to cost the earth, give it a try and see what you think. I don't know if this has dovetail mounts, or if you might need something to fit the scope. A quick google reveals the train of thought on this rifle seems to be "sort the trigger pull" which is a little heavy. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk shooter Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 if the meat is perfectly edible, in my view if you either dont eat what you shoot or dont sell it to gamedealers you shouldnt be shooting Exactly, It seems those above have the same views as me. I can't stand wasting edible quarry, pigeon, squirrel, rabbit, rook (Branchers only though as once they start flying it's tough going). If you don't eat it or know how to prepare it, then ask around on here, there's lanty of people in your area on here who would be only to happy to show you how to. The receipes on here are good as well. Congrats on getting the BSA, its a good, tried and tested gun but trust me once you've had it for a while and the bug really gets hold you'll want a PCP Air rifle and that is a different league altogether. you think the BSA is good, just wait a PCP will make you think it's a broom handle by comparison. As snakebite said, are you sure your ok, only most new people on here don't listen to the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Again bad advice PP and it's not re No more range, no more penetration as such. a .177 and a .22 at legal limit have the same power. The difference is the .177 pellet will be faster, but smaller. They have similar terminal ballistics. You don't want penetration, you want the entire energy transmitted to the quarry. If it penetrates it won't be doing that. The .177 / .22 thing will rage on and on, but don't make your choice based on bad advice. The one thing we all agree on is that .177 has a flatter trajectory, that is less holdover required for longer ranges. Some say this makes it easier to shoot, some don't. Gotta dissagree with some of that. You can shoot a 12ft/lb .177 more accurately over a longer range than a .22. HFT results proove this, it's simple physics. .22 generally have better BC than .177 - again physics and easily measurable so not debateable. Some penetration is absolutely essential. Transfer of energy in itself will NOT kill. The energy is far less than you can produce by kicking. Shoot a dead carcass and watch how much it moves (it doesn't) then try kicking it and watch it fly - hence far better energy transfer. ALL the enery transfer does to kill is removes and destroys VITAL tissue. This only happens when the pellet has penetrated far enough. if a .177 flys all the way through the brain then all the energy has not transfered but there is maximum damage to the vital area and the vermin is dead. The FBI did extensive research into what kills and what doesn't with handguns against humans (not vastly different to airguns on vermin in terms of speed of projectile and potential damage). They too concluded that penetration is vital in making a kill and that there was no such thing as knock-down power. However .177 only penetrates marginally more than .22 and .22 makes a bigger wound channel so .22 will kill more effectively when it hits the target. It is however far better to hit the killzone with a .177 than miss the killzone with a .22 because you've misjudged the range. http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Thanks, i will post a seperate thread somewhere about local game dealers, but i have found one that apparently buys pigeons and rabbits so i will endvour to ensure i dont waste ANY edible quarry. If not what type of quarry do you reckon my local zoo would want? How about corvids? Thanks for all the help! Also, i would not have joined if i wasn't here to recieve and ACT on the advice i realise that shooting requires a great deal of responisbilty thus i would rather gain as much knowledge before i go in the field then make errors and get in trouble! I know PCP may be next xmas but from a 30 yr old low power .177 and a .22 B2 to the lightning feels like the whole broom handle thing already! I zeroed the scope over 20odd yds in the garden (the longest distance poss in the garden!) and after zeroing it i was landing pellets in the centre within 20-30mm groupings! So off to the farm on wednsday, down the surplus on monday/tuesday to get some camo, all though my dad gave me some big, comfortable walking boots (they were new just been used to garden) so not much left now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Keep us posted on your results mate and I will always take any tree rats if fresh off your hands. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 yeah cool, were do you shoot/live lurcher?? Obviously being that we both live in kent i wondered if you were near me or not? I live in thanet and gf lives in canterbury where i go to uni. Wish i could shoot at uni though we have hundreds of crows, rabbits and squirrels!!! Worst of all the rabbits actually dug up the library costing 1000's in reworking the foundations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Main shoot is in Upstreet right between Thanet and Canterbury mate. I know what you mean by the University plenty of scutails running free. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerico Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hi all my first post on here For corvids, if you shoot one take it home and put it in the freezer, as corvids are territorial a defrosted magpie lying on the ground with its wings spread out makes great decoy for attracting others. As for rabbits, if you or the land owner doesn’t want them put an advert in a pet shop window. One of the reasons for me getting back into air rifles was the price of frozen rabbits to feed my snakes, a pet shop charges about £6 for a frozen rabbit! Shot rabbits are fine if they are frozen for a couple of months and obviously the pellet is taken out, you could get a couple of quid for each of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Recent visit to France I noticed farmed rabbit in a supermarket for nearly 6 euros / kilo Shame people here don't value it like that, we'd all be rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hi all my first post on here For corvids, if you shoot one take it home and put it in the freezer, as corvids are territorial a defrosted magpie lying on the ground with its wings spread out makes great decoy for attracting others. As for rabbits, if you or the land owner doesn’t want them put an advert in a pet shop window. One of the reasons for me getting back into air rifles was the price of frozen rabbits to feed my snakes, a pet shop charges about £6 for a frozen rabbit! Shot rabbits are fine if they are frozen for a couple of months and obviously the pellet is taken out, you could get a couple of quid for each of them. Welcome to the forum jerico, nice tip about the corvids. As for the rabbits probably donate them to my local zoo and birdpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken15 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Sorry been awhile since Ive been on. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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