fortune Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 One of my son in-laws has this 20 SbS that was bought for him by his late Grandfather when the lad was about 15. It is of sentimental value to him and I said that I would try to find out a bit about its history for him. The gun is a boxlock non-ejector that isn’t anything special. It’s a solid decent rough shooters gun. There are no definitive makers name on he gun and I have found out that guns were made by different tradesmen that specialised in barrels or actions and wood to be assembled by another. Similar to the Birmingham gun trade. I can see that it was proofed in Liege and that the letters JF on the barrels are a barrel maker. But can anyone help with the year of proof and any other stuff on its history of manufacture. Because his Granddad gave it to him and used to take him out shooting around the farm he is not selling it and he doesn’t need a valuation of the gun. Thanks in advance for any help on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rectifier Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Not sure if this is going to give you any more info that you already know, its got some of the descriptions of the hallmarks, http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html Im trying to work out how youd ID the manufacturer though? Someone with more shotgun knowledge than me will probably be able to advise Maybe one of those markings is a serial number ?? 11850 possibly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rectifier Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 can you post a pic of the complete gun assembled ? It may be easier to ID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I think the barrel date code is 1937 and inspected by Leon chesnoy .The JF should mean Jamar Freres ,Underneath the action bottom cover you may find this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the feedback on the marks. I cant work out what the mark is that looks like an N on th barrel flats. The mark has a long leg on one side of the N. A couple of pics that show an overall view of the gun. Edited July 23, 2013 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) That mark is the date code , p into tiny (rhô in Greek): year letter of 1937. (Date of manufacture) http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20jamar%20freres%20gb.htm http://image.slidesharecdn.com/belgianallproofmarks-121212142644-phpapp02/95/slide-7-638.jpg?1355344044 Edited July 23, 2013 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Bingo Thanks very much for that info. Looks fairly similar to the gun in the pictures. I’m surprised by the 1937 proof. Apparently the gun was probably bought from a dealer and his Gran has the receipt for it somewhere in the pile of paperwork. I wonder what hands it has been through in all of those years. Was it brought back over here as a war trophy by one of our lads and did someone have it in a cupboard for many years until it’s owner passed on and that’s how it ended up in a gunshop. Or were the parts not made into a gun until much later after the war and even into the fifties or sixties? We could have taken better pictures if we had put out minds to it. The engraving on the side of the action is more prominent than can be seen in the pictures and would have shown up better if we tilted it to get the light on it better, but the overall image gives up the info required. As I previously wrote the gun isn’t a Purdey but it is in good condition (especially if the proof is 1937) and it is a solid tight rough shooters gun). The Son in Laws first memory of using the gun is out rabbiting with his Grandfather and falling over in a ditch and getting mud in the barrels. His grandfather wiped the mud from his hands on his trousers and found a stick to rod the mud out of the bores When this was done they continued on their shoot. Money can’t buy these sort of memories. Once again thanks for the help. Edited July 23, 2013 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Here it is in the rack when we shot a few clays recently. It still knocks them down when you put the lead in the right place. Edited July 23, 2013 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabarm gamma boy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 realy enjoyed that read! nice to see an old gun still doing its job! must be made of good quality wormanship as its lasted the last 76 years from its proof date! the mind can only wonder where its been and whats its shot! amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Ok, So I was thinking about the history of the gun and thanks to Andy H we know a bit about it, BUT this opens up more questions. Some of these are unanswerable such as IF this was brought back from the continent as a war trophy and someone kept it until it went to a dealer / shop then there is no way to find out the lost past. If this was sold through a gunshop is it possible to find out who might have been the importer / distributor and when it might have been imported /sold. I have copies of the shooting times that date from the late sixties and early seventies and I cant remember seeing adverts for “cheaper “ Belgian guns being sold. I can remember people such as Elderkins selling Guns made by AyA and badged as The Elderkins model XYZ and the like but not un-named cheaper Belgian guns. If anyone can remember this sort of sale I would be grateful for any info to try and paint a bit more history detail on the gun. It’s a bit like a detective hunt. Perhaps someone like rabbitbosher might know something about this as he deals in some pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Message sent to Wabbitbosher. Advice from anyone else gratefully received Edited July 28, 2013 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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