Underdog Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 All you chairgun users or folks with access to data lets say I make a thick paper shotcup and put a large volume of small steel shot say something around lead #4 in my 20g flinter and get around 1100fps just how far is it going to bust necks n' wings? Underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Can any one help me with compliance? U. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 forget steel in a muzzel loader... from the point of view, of, the steel shot will give everything a hammering, barrel & chamber etc. i`m cautious about recomending volumes of steel because the powder may completely burn different when steel is used. ( more than likely) i would not recomend using steel in a muzzel loader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Notwithstanding the points at Post #3, to answer your question, as there's no mention of quarry species so purely based on energy then: For the same shot sizes, the energy level of lead at 20 yards would be equalled by steel at 7 yards and similarly, 25=10, 30=15, 35=19, 40=22, 45=27, 50=32. To equal the lethal effect of lead, then by using shot size No1 and reducing the range by a couple of yards or using Bs and extending the range a tad would do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Ta but was not wanting any recomendations really....what I was wondering was....at 1100fps would there be enough for a max of 30yds terminal performance wise? I dont shoot much past thirty with lead so if I do the worrying bit would the steel atill bust heads,necks and wings. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Are you shooting snipe or goose as it does make a difference? Whatever it is, is the maximum range of the No4 the 30 yards or is that distance self imposed. It's difficult to answer the question without some guidance. What is your estimate of the pellet energy at those 30 yards? If we were to assume a mid sized duck, then a No3 would do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks ....yes I dont want to shoot past thirty. I would rather they fly on and yes ducks from teal to mallard. 1&1/4oz of lead so am thinking my ounce measure used twice for steel. What is the diameter of a #3 steel? Thanks. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The information I used was from a comparison table looking at lead and various NTS types. Consequently, all sizes were standard English shot. The #3 that I mentioned is 0.128" - 3.25mm which I believe is actually Steel #4. Because you're not having to match steel/lead performance, and even though it's invalid anyway, the go up two shot sizes does not apply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Interesting question. I understand that some of the pressure problems encountered when shooting steel are because you have to squeeze it into a forcing cone at the end of the cartridge, but of course you don't have that problem with a muzzle loader, so assuming the choke wasn't too heavy the shot should have a pretty easy ride. If you buffered the shot that might help even more by preventing the shot from trying to ride over each other. This is all amateur guesswork of course, you'd need some qualified advice really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The information I used was from a comparison table looking at lead and various NTS types. Consequently, all sizes were standard English shot. The #3 that I mentioned is 0.128" - 3.25mm which I believe is actually Steel #4. Because you're not having to match steel/lead performance, and even though it's invalid anyway, the go up two shot sizes does not apply here.Thanks wymmbers....I was thinking that no choke plus thirty yard limit etc to keep the pellet count up. Thats a good point weazel...never thought about the forcing cone not being there! U. Edited January 17, 2014 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 i`ve been looking at what the yanks are doing, using plastic shotcups. maybe a over powdercard under them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 i`ve been looking at what the yanks are doing, using plastic shotcups. maybe a over powdercard under them yeah but all plastic wads/cups with bp need a fire wall really. A lubed fiber wad is best between the plastic and powder but I didnt want to use plastic but would make my own from paper....maybe!What I do know is that my frontstuffers are very gentle on lead shot. Every pellet recovered hardly is marked! I am assuming by hoping the lower pressures and vels mean not so thick barrel protection is needed. I did experiment with paper cups and lead years ago and whilst snugging the pattern from the cylinder barrels the recovered paper cups showed very little perforation from the shot under pressure and that was just two layers of copier paper! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks wymmbers....I was thinking that no choke plus thirty yard limit etc to keep the pellet count up. Thats a good point weazel...never thought about the forcing cone not being there! U. Re the pellet count: 0.128"/3.25mm = #4 steel =199 pellets #Oz. For teal to keep the count up 0.120"/3mm = #5 steel = 243 pellets #Oz and the energy is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Re the pellet count: 0.128"/3.25mm = #4 steel =199 pellets #Oz. For teal to keep the count up 0.120"/3mm = #5 steel = 243 pellets #Oz and the energy is good. Does that mean #5 steel is the same size as the lead counterparts? U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does that mean #5 steel is the same size as the lead counterparts? U. Being a confirmed cynic there is good reason why they make things difficult!. No, #5 lead is 0.110" - #5 steel is 0.120 and #4 lead is 0.120" and #4 steel is 0.128" So, #5 steel is a lead #4 and #4 steel is #3 lead. This means that the steel sizes are already in effect one size larger than lead. They then say for steel go up two shot sizes. So, for a lead #6, you'd go for a steel #4 which is actually a lead #3 so you've really gone up 3 sizes. Crafty or what! Problem is though that it can be shown that even this on occasion is insufficient. The thing is, steel does work and it would have done the material a bigger favour if we were told from the word go as it really is instead of telling porkies in an attempt to overcome the objections to its use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thankyou Wymmberly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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