jonnys Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Hi folks I'm after a bit of advice / reassurance please...... A year ago I bought a brand new 17HMR CZ452 American 16inch Barrel and put a Hawke x4-x12 50m scope and a mod on it - standard set up basically. I use the standard 17g Hornady V-max though it. I have had it serviced, had the trigger adjusted, had the stock carved out to make sure barrel was free floating (which it wasn't from the factory). I just don't find it holds zero that well, I will spend time getting it just right, and then three sessions later I will check the zero and it'll be 3 inches out. I know the 17 HMR is prone to wind drift, but last night I had a 10mph 90 degree cross wind and it was 3 inces out and 50 yards (not 100 yards). I'm very careful not to knock the gun/scope, I clean the barrel every 300 rounds or so, have checked the scope is tight enough - I feel like I'm doing everything right but just not getting the results. I group about an 1-1.5inches at 100m, but the group is not the main issue, it's the fact it seems to shift zero. I'm not from a shooting background and don't have a lot of experience, so a few questions please: 1. how often do you find you have to rezero, either in time or shots? 2. am I expecting too much from this entry level CZ / Hawke scope combo, it's 1-1.5inch @ 100m about right? 3.would changing my ammo help? I have heard reports that the Hornady V-max doesn't always work that well, any one got any experience with that? 4. is there anything I haven't thought about which could be causing these zero/accuracy issues (and don't say my shooting! lol!) It's really starting to get to me this problem, as last night the first two rabbits I shot at I missed, then I checked zero and it was out by 3 inches (only rezerod 10 days ago but have put over 100 shots thru since), so I had to quickly rezero in the field with a makeshift target in a 10mph wild - not great. I then went onto shoot 27 rabbits, but I did miss quite a few which usually I don't! Thanks in advance for any help/advice. All the best, Jonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If the rifle's shooting consistent sized groups but the groups are shifting around the paper the problem is likely to be either the scope or its mountings. Try another scope. If possible borrow one which is known to be sound. Perhaps some PW member near you can help with that or maybe the dealer who sold you the rifle. It could also be the stock bedding. Check the action is secure in the stock. Make sure also that you're testing with the same batch of ammo. Switching batches can shift POI (point of impact) though 3" sound rather a lot. Most HMRs are capable of shooting ragged holes at 100 yards in the right conditions. Whether the shooter is, is another matter. If you're a novice and you're managing 1" groups, that's perfectly respectable. Both you and the rifle will be capable of better but you need to find the brand of ammunition that suits the rifle best, which can only be done by trial an error, and you need to practise your shooting. My HMR likes a thorough clean about every 100 rounds. If I don't do it the groups will open up. But different rifles, even those of the same make, prefer different ammunition and different cleaning routines. You have to get to know your rifle to find out what suits it. Start with a clean barrel and first eliminate this wandering group problem. Then try different ammo until you find the brand that shoots the tightest. Keep a tally of how many rounds you've shot and check zero regularly to see if its opening up. When it does, clean and shoot again. If its shooting tight again that's your cleaning interval established. When you do clean it must be absolutely thorough. That tiny bore and shallow rifling is easily upset. Get it squeaky clean without a trace of oil or cleaning fluid remaining. There's lots of HMR cleaning threads on here. Have a read. Personally, I don't re-zero as such unless perhaps I dropped the rifle or given it a severe knock. The Meopta scope I've got on it has always been extremely reliable at holding zero. But after a clean I'll put a few through just to check. It rarely needs any adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Callahan Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Gimlet has pretty much covered it. My gut is saying its a scope problem, almost definate if the groupping drifts but is still a consistant group. Iv a Hawke scope, i think they are very good for their costs - but its not as good as the Bushnell i changed from. But you can buy the most expensive scope on the market, if theres a fault you wont hit anything!!! As for zeroing, once every 12-18months, or whenever i change ammo brand/type just to check it fires the same as i had previously. Its a contentious issue but i dont clean my rifle (8 years and still going strong with no issues). Its a CZ452 Varmint with 20inch barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 try changing ammo,i switched from hornady to federal,much tighter groups,i clean after about 250 rounds,i use a hawke 6-24x50 on my 455,16"barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnys Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Gimlet, thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive response it was very helpful. I have a brand new Redfield 3-9 x 50 scope on my .308 (which I never use) and so I'm going to swap it over to that, also I will clean the barrel well. I assume the CZ will accept the mounts and I can just swap it over? I will use the mounts on the Redfield as they were about £50 or so, the ones I have on the CZ where only about £20. If the above solves it then great. If not I will play around with the ammo and try a few different types. As for zeroing, I'm having to do mine every couple of weeks it seems. As I mention in my original post, I zeroed it about 10 days ago under ideal conditions and it was fine, then last night I missed the first two rabbits and when I checked zero it was 3ines out! So to hear that you only zero yours every 12 month makes me release that there MUST be something wrong with mine - so thanks again for sharing that as it's given the kick up the backside I needed to start changing things. I also get what you mean about learning what works with the gun, and I don't think I've done that, I've just carried on and on thinking - it must be me, it can't be the gun, scope, mounts as they're all new! But I release now that I need to do a bit of fault diagnosis and start chaging things around until I find what works. As for checking the action is secure in the stock, I'm sure it is as I've only just recently had it into my gunsmith and asked him to go over it for me and clean it etc, such has been my desparation to get this matter solved. My gunsmith did even try it out for me and showed me the target and at 50m he was cloverleafing, but that not the issue, it's the zero shift rather than the grouping. As you say for a novice I guess about 1inch is ok. Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on with it. All the best, Jonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 1" groups are normal for an HMR. A shifting zero isn't. The only consistent thing with an HMR is that they are all different. My old HMR would shoot 0.5moa all day no matter what the ammo (and it never got cleaned), until I had run about 7000 rounds through it. After that I found it liked to be cleaned after around 50 rounds or the POI shifted around. There was probably a point at which it would stop shifting but it was far easier to just run a patch through it and know it would be on point from a cold barrel. My new HMR gets patched clean after every outing and it shoots fine. I found the scope makes all the difference, and I don't mean 'spend more money', or 'buy the best', just find one that suits your eye, position it correctly and your good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 lads are great on here for helping one out,i had a Konus 3-9x50 on my 22 a few years ago,broke my heart,never held zero,had to set it every time i went out,got the bin,would not sell it on,got a hawke 4-16x50,set it once,not touched it since,so got the 6-24x50 for the hmr, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Mounts and action screws tight? Could be the climate effecting the stock, pillars will help. Your cleaning routine is far poorer than I could except personally, I strongly suspect its wind or shooter error though how did you measure that 90 degrees and 10mph. Shooting to the same zero is often shooter induced. there is no way of knowing though, as it needs hands on investigation and could be any number of things. I should start with a proper clean and give it to a well proven shooter as a starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.