Amazed Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 I wounder what michel fish has to say on the subject ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 As could I but we are not talking minute of a fleas butt here and its the group average that counts most from multiple groups. What we are talking about is a .17 Rem used in the field on a rainy day for killing vermin (not a PPC in a rest and back bag with flags flapping all over the shop). Besides target guys have a whole list of reasons why a shot was bad, many bear only scant resemblance to the facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yeah, ok all anyone has to do is pick up on what People Like Nancy Tomkins has to say on rain basically "averages don't change because of the rain" . you seem to forget I remember you and your friend coming to the range he was a fair old natural shot that guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Should I be concerned about shooting deer in the rain with my .308 . After all it is a much bigger and slower bullet and is bound to be hit by more raindrops than the very small 17 . My life will be on hold until I have had some scientific information . Please somebody reassure me that after 50 years of stalking I haven't got it wrong . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 There is never any middle ground with some is there, sarcasm, assumption and presumption, the swinging pendulum goes from one end to the other, what about the bit in the middle? The bloody topic was about 17Rem, I have seen a lot of the brilliant performance this little cartridge is capable of. When I said it struggles in the rain I meant that if you are serious about not educating fox's but like going out at night in all weathers like we use to back then then don't try any long shots in the rain with it. Now if your not fussed go ahead, what the hell it don't really bloody matter... ok. Now lets clear up some assumptions about water in the form of rain drops and 17Rem and other super fast varmint rounds with light bullets, not 308 and such as although documented accounts of this event are slim there are even less accounts of it happening in the larger sizes of bullets. Lets suppose Kent has a bald head and he is use to and suffers no ill effects when it rains on his head, he can readily record every rain drop on his bald patch and it does not hurt one bit, fine. Now lets load him in a cannon and point it up into the sky, we can put names in a hat to raise some money for charity if every one agrees of course and the lucky name drawn from the hat can light the fuse! When Kent is fired from the cannon in the rain any rain drop hitting his bald patch is now going to really hurt! If our Kent bullet is going fast enough there will be a cushion of compressed air in front of his bald patch and although it is tempting to believe this cushion of air will save him from the now painful rain drops it won't! Why?.....because there is not enough time, not enough time for the air, a mixture of gasses, to overcome the mass of the liquid water by the way of which is not compressible to move the rain drop out of the way and if it did move it out of the way the same force needed to move it out of the way will also be exerted on the bullet in the opposite direction. So in the case of a light 17 bullet and a light rain drop of close to similar weight the exchange of energy is going to have a marked effect to the bullet. Lets not forget even sound waves can effect a bullets stability! But a rain drop won't It is foolish to believe that a simple light breeze of air will shift a bullets impact during it's tiny time frame of flight but scoff at the effect of a rain drop being in the wrong place at the right time! The odds are remotely slim yes but I bet it is harder to win the lotto than to experience this anomaly with a 17Rem in rain, yes there are many types of rain but alas this is based on my own personal experience gathered over a three year period, in fact it was the main reason my friend back then changed to a 223, just so we had a slightly better chance in bad weather.....we were very serious at it back then. The first year we shot 164, the second something like 140 odd and I forget the third year, I digress. The point I wish to make is my comments are not based on assumption. Kent, brother, you are not required to poop on every experience you have not had the pleasure or miss fortune of experiencing. You seriously need to relax brother and get the pole surgically removed before it gives you a heart attack and stop taking the steroids U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Wind (the air) is that which the bullet travels in (if it moves, so does the bullet). It acts on the bullet as a constant, intermittent or even opposite in the case of a switch in direction or contour. Bullets and rain is over thinking a problem that actually doesn't exist Underdog, You said especially a Hollow point, explain your thoughts on how a hollow point is more effected in line with your assumptions. Its not my view alone if you just take the comment made by Nancy in her book on Long range target shooting it sort of backs my statement up. Oh and I am not bald and if I was I should be smart enough to wear a hat if it was raining Nobody need take my words alone, there is a ton of info out their. It don't make any real odds what you use in the rain .17 Rem or .308 win I certainly do not need to swear on an open public forum available to Kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 For the record, I have witnessed this phenomenon and NOT assumed it or just read someone else's opinions or assumptions about it. Kent, you are clearly a bigot and an arrogant bully who has delusional aspirations of grandeur. I really have no idea of what form of abuse you suffered as a child but please get some help! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hey I doubt it, very much you can disagree and state your case but I doubt you can back it up with more than hearsay even more (at the end of the day your actually talking of a third parties rifle here right?) Were as some shoot very regularly in the rain its not me who is having a freak out moment, swearing and making wild accusations of previous childhood abuse (that's some serious stuff going on in someone's head and it isn't mine is it now). There must be hundreds of members who have shot HMR in the rain as well as many other rifles and I have yet to hear one talk of bullets getting knocked around by raindrops, expanding in flight through hitting one and any such. We have the instance of a known champion shot saying "averages are not effected" and yet I am the one with problems mmm,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ironically today watching a work coleague shoot his 177 air rifle in the rain one of his shots hit a rain drop mid way I jest not! His group by the way was affected. Nuff said. Good luck. Have fun everyone. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ironically today watching a work coleague shoot his 177 air rifle in the rain one of his shots hit a rain drop mid way I jest not! His group by the way was affected. Nuff said. Good luck. Have fun everyone. U. I think we will be needing ultra slow motion footage of this mid air aquatic collision to quell the fire in Kents bonnet. All the best Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I think we will be needing ultra slow motion footage of this mid air aquatic collision to quell the fire in Kents bonnet. All the best Karl. hey there is no fire here, no swearing no insults, no wild accusations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ironically today watching a work coleague shoot his 177 air rifle in the rain one of his shots hit a rain drop mid way I jest not! His group by the way was affected. Nuff said. Good luck. Have fun everyone. U. Well I never the sheer coincidence seeing a raindrop and air rifle pellet collide on the way to target and on this very day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wind (the air) is that which the bullet travels in (if it moves, so does the bullet). It acts on the bullet as a constant, intermittent or even opposite in the case of a switch in direction or contour. Bullets and rain is over thinking a problem that actually doesn't exist Underdog, You said especially a Hollow point, explain your thoughts on how a hollow point is more effected in line with your assumptions. Its not my view alone if you just take the comment made by Nancy in her book on Long range target shooting it sort of backs my statement up. Oh and I am not bald and if I was I should be smart enough to wear a hat if it was raining Nobody need take my words alone, there is a ton of info out their. It don't make any real odds what you use in the rain .17 Rem or .308 win If I certainly do not need to swear on an open public forum available to Kids Kent , where do you get all this boring drivel from . Are you a member of pendants anonymous ,? if not I think it would do you good to join . Perhaps they will get you out a bit more . Thought that I might just mention , can you remember a couple of weeks or so ago when you called me a liar when I posted a thread about damage to shotgun barrels caused by steel shot . You said that I had made it all up . I suggest that you have look at some of the other uk shooting forums and look at the horrendous damage done to guns by steel shot . The pictures and the article are posted by a very well known gunsmith and gun retailer . It's still not to late to appologise. Harnser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Go back to your own previous post in this thread and say that again please, if you want to quote me on another topic at another time then lets have it up a bit more accurately in context please. One think I certainly don't think I said was you are a liar or your lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Go back to your own previous post in this thread and say that again please, if you want to quote me on another topic at another time then lets have it up a bit more accurately in context please. One think I certainly don't think I said was you are a liar or your lying. Please ,please read the post . You told me that I was making it up . Dosent this constitutes lying . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) The steel shot thread has been resurrected . please read carefully kent . I ts under bullets cartridges and reloadind . Harnser Edited May 8, 2014 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 For the record, I have witnessed this phenomenon and NOT assumed it or just read someone else's opinions or assumptions about it. Kent, you are clearly a bigot and an arrogant bully who has delusional aspirations of grandeur. I really have no idea of what form of abuse you suffered as a child but please get some help! U. Little bit out of line that mate...sorry but it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I shot a 17 rem for years and it was a great little bullet especially with a homeload but the slightest bit of wind piece of grass and the bullet would disintegrate and the rabbit / fox would wander off and this happened many a time ski traded it in for a 223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Little bit out of line that mate...sorry but it is. Its also a liable case in the making and leaves someone wide open to him being sued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steyrman Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Lads please i only wanted some info wish i had not botherd now !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Lads please i only wanted some info wish i had not botherd now !!! I think if you read between the insults it's recommended as a home loaded round. I liked the look of the 17 rem and did enquire about it with a well know gunsmith. His answer was. It's a lot of powder to put down a small hole. Stick with a 20 over the rem. I was also recommended to see what component or ammo was availible in my area before making a decision. So I opted for a triple to eventually become a 223 multiple choice on bullets powder cases no forming or fussing. Time in the field is time well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 My humble apologies to the OP. I like the round and the last post puts it in a nut shell perfect. If anyone wishes to obtain my details in order to sue me for anything I have said then please ask a moderater to approach me in their behalf. Whilst some may find certain words in my post offensive I too suffer terribly when someone, anyone with no proof implies I may be lying. To some this is a weakness, to be prayed on. To others honourable. Anyway, I like 17Remington. Underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 My humble apologies to the OP. I like the round and the last post puts it in a nut shell perfect. If anyone wishes to obtain my details in order to sue me for anything I have said then please ask a moderater to approach me in their behalf. Whilst some may find certain words in my post offensive I too suffer terribly when someone, anyone with no proof implies I may be lying. To some this is a weakness, to be prayed on. To others honourable. Anyway, I like 17Remington. Underdog. So do I underdog if I could I would have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steyrman Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 . So I opted for a triple to eventually become a 223 multiple choice on bullets powder cases no forming or fussing. Time in the field is time well spent. I have a .223 its great but i just fancy something a different from the norm cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 . So I opted for a triple to eventually become a 223 multiple choice on bullets powder cases no forming or fussing. Time in the field is time well spent. I have a .223 its great but i just fancy something a different from the norm cheers If I had the time and money I would love a 20 practical Cases easily formed from 223. One day maybe All the best Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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