hornet bullets

[dph]

i use a .22hornet rifle and the bullets i use are winchester super x 46 gr hollow point,but i am aware that there are some other makes of cartridges that use a lighter weight bullet down to about 35 gr....what advantage or disadvantage is there in using this load?.

[markbivvy]

i use a .22hornet rifle and the bullets i use are winchester super x 46 gr hollow point,but i am aware that there are some other makes of cartridges that use a lighter weight bullet down to about 35 gr....what advantage or disadvantage is there in using this load?.

 

i have used the 45 grn sierra soft point and heard 1 or 2 bounce.

the others i have used are the 35 grain v max. this is what i will be

using .

[dunganick]

35 grain vmax, shoots sub 1/2" groups @100 yards all day long in my old mans hornet. Also does the trick on the bunnies and crows well.

[mry716]

Hi Nick,

 

What number is on the box for the 35gr?

 

I thought the Vmax were .224" not Hornet. If they are making them in 223 I will get some.

 

I only thought they did 45gr SP no 2220 for the Hornet.

 

Cheers

M

[mry716]

Fister

Yes there are some who fit a 224 barrel and have a special chamber reamer purely to provide a wider choice of bullet but unless I am mistaken I have always believed the Hornet was 223 as a standard size and bullets used therein needed to be 223 not 224 - hence my question above.

M

[dph]

i have just gone on the google homepage and typed in .which hornet bullet. came up with some interesting american sites, notably www.huntingmag.com which talkes about 223 and 224.........never knew their was so mutch written about the hornet round, but i suppose it has been around for a long time.

[mry716]

dph

 

If you would like to send me your email address I will forward you a short but useful article on reloading for the Hornet that may be of interest to you.

 

mry716@hotmail.com

[Frank]

So, is it dangerouse to use say, winchester .22 Hornet 46 grain factory ammo, in say a CZ rifle, as i have a good few freinds who use this combo for foxes?

 

Frank.

[mry716]

So, is it dangerouse to use say, winchester .22 Hornet 46 grain factory ammo, in say a CZ rifle, as i have a good few freinds who use this combo for foxes?

 

Frank.

 

Frank,

 

I honestly do not know.

 

Personally I have always used 223 bullets but perhaps folk do use 224 without problems. Read the pinned post about 223 military and domestic ammo differences as an alternative example of similar circumstances.

 

Hopefully Nick will give us a pointer as to his father’s circumstances or perhaps someone with more hornet experience can offer a little light.

 

However, the article below explains something about the barrel and chamber differences that I mentioned in my above post so its well worth trudging through it.

 

M

 

 

22 Hornet

This little varminter can be a challenge for the handloader.

by

Bob Forker

 

 

 

While some handloaders complain about the Hornet's accuracy, others have found them to be tack-drivers. This group was shot from a machine rest using 11.0 grains of 1680 powder, 52-rain Hornady match bullets, CCI-BR4 primers and Remington cases.

The .22 Hornet's history goes back to about 1885 with the .22 WCF (Winchester Centerfire). It looked just like the later Hornet and with its black-powder load it drove a 45-grain bullet to about 1500 feet per second.

 

In the late 1920s, Col. Townsend Whelen and Capt. G. L. Wotkyns began experimenting with the cartridge in a M1922 Springfield. Since the first guns were made with M1922 rimfire barrels, the groove diameter was .223 inch. Later, other gunmakers picked up on this cartridge, and some used a .224 groove diameter for their guns. The SAAMI standard for Hornet barrels is a .222 groove diameter. Don't ask me why, but even the factory ammo uses .224 bullets today. (Our test barrel is .224.) This has led some bullet makers to produce both .223- and .224-diameter bullets for Hornet reloaders. The .223-diameter bullets are gradually going out of style.

 

Winchester started loading commercial Hornet ammo in 1930 and Remington soon joined in. You can still get Hornet factory ammo from both companies, so there is still a good supply of cases. The cases we have in our inventory show the Remington brass holding about 0.5 grain more water than the Winchester. What this difference means is that the same load in our Winchester cases produced a slightly greater velocity at a somewhat higher pressure. Other case lots can very easily reverse this difference. This provides still another example of why you should always start any load development at the published starting load level.

 

The Hornet uses the small rifle primer, so primers aren't a problem. If you have a good-shooting gun, you might try some of these loads with bench-rest primers.

 

Bullets for the Hornet need a little discussion. In theory, you can use any .22-caliber bullets (if you have a .224 barrel), but in practice the list is considerably shorter.

 

Many older Hornets were built with one-turn-in-16-inch twist barrels. They are marginal with 52-grain bullets, and generally unsatisfactory with anything heavier. Many Hornet barrels today use a 1-in-14 twist, which will usually handle somewhat heavier bullets. You really need to measure your barrel to know just what your gun has in terms of both diameter and twist.

 

Because the Hornet with 45-grain bullets produces only slightly over 2600 fps, you have to use bullets with light jackets if you expect to get good "blowup" performance on varmints. This does reduce the selection of suitable bullets, but there are still plenty of choices. Powders Suitable For the .22 Hornet

Accurate Arms #9, 1680, 2015BR Alliant 2400,RL-7 Hodgdon H110, H4227, H4198 IMR 4227, 4198 Vihta Vuori N110 Winchester-Western 296

 

The .22 Hornet (with a 15-grains-of-water case volume) is never going to keep up with the .223 Remington or even the .222. If you feel you just have to have 3000 fps out of a 50-grain bullet, you better trade your Hornet for a .222 because you just can't get there with that little case. Still, out to 150 yards--some say 200--the Hornet is a great varmint cartridge.

 

Accuracy can be another problem with Hornets. There are all sorts of stories, and the general thrust seems to be that some Hornets shoot great and others are terrible. A while back I was shooting an Anschutz Exemplar in .22 Hornet. The gun shot--and still shoots--very well. At the same time, I shot the same ammo in a couple of rifles. Neither rifle shot well by varmint standards. When I tried to put some of the cases that had been fired in the rifles into the Exemplar, they wouldn't chamber. They were much too large. That caused me to do some serious thinking about chamber size.

 

It turns out that even the minimum SAAMI chamber specifications are a loose fit on maximum Hornet ammo. With a maximum chamber (but still to spec) and minimum ammo (again, still to spec), you have room to throw a cat in the chamber along with the cartridge. The guns fire, and safety isn't an issue within the specified limits, but it does make for poor accuracy. It turns out that all the guns that I could find that shot well had minimum (or smaller) chambers.

 

We decided to try a little experiment. Working with the JGS Reamer folks in Coos Bay, Oregon (514-267-4331), we ordered a new reamer that produces a chamber that's a snug fit on the ammo the way it is being produced by the factory today. Bo Clerke made up several barrels incorporating the "tight" chambers made with the tight reamer. The group shown was fired from the barrel in the machine rest at a 100-yard distance. The load was 11.0 grains of Acc. 1680 behind a Hornady 52-grain match bullet, the case was Remington and the primer was the CCI-BR4. JGS treats custom reamer designs as proprietary, but they have our permission to make the "tight" reamers for anyone who wants to try one. Their reamer drawing is identified as "22 H FORKER."

 

See http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/22_hornet/index.html for load data

 

Compared with some of the larger cases, the powder selection for the Hornet is a little limited. Still there are enough suitable numbers. The worst problem you run into is that it doesn't take a big change in powder burning rate to go from a powder that gets to maximum pressure before the case is full to one that fills the case before you can get to any decent pressure (and velocity).

 

For the record, the SAAMI maximum pressure is listed as 43,000 c.u.p. Only the copper crusher pressure is defined. I suppose that's because no one wanted to set up the old Hornet for transducer pressures. Using the denser spherical or rolled ball powders allows you to fit just a little more powder (by weight) into the case. The powders with fine granulation generally meter and pour better for these small charges than the long-grain tubular numbers. The Hornet is far from the easiest cartridge to reload for good performance.

 

Because the Hornet case is so small, you need to make your powder charge changes in very small increments as you build up loads. An increase of 0.5 grain is sometimes too much. A 0.25- or 0.3-grain increase is probably enough. After all, there's only about a 2.0-grain margin between the starting and the maximum loads.

 

The loads shown were developed in a rifle-length (24-inch) barrel. These same loads are also suitable for the single-shot pistols like the XP-100 and the Contenders. You can expect to lose as much as 300 to 400 fps when dropping down to a 12-inch barrel length. While the velocity will be reduced in the shorter barrels, you shouldn't allow yourself to get trapped into thinking you have to use faster powder in the shorter barrels. After all, the peak pressure--the ultimate limiting factor for loading--is reached after only about an inch or two of bullet travel. The same load develops the same peak pressure regardless of barrel length (at least until you get down to two inches or so).

 

The Hornet cartridge makes a great varmint number at modest ranges. In the right barrel, it can be as accurate as any other .22 centerfire.

 

WARNING:

The loads shown here are safe only in guns for which they were developed. Neither the author nor Petersen Publishing Company assumes any liability for accidents or injury resulting from the use or misuse of this data.

[dunganick]

the very old hornets are .223, hornet more recently (not sure exact dates) are .224

 

there is a round very similar to the hornet which is 223 called the veiling (not sure if thats spelt right)

 

the 35grain vmax we use are .224 and its fine

 

sorry i cant give you a more technical answer than that, but this is what i have been told by my old man and his friend who is a gunsmith, and .22 hornet guru.

[mry716]

Thanks Nick.

[dph]

hello nick i would like to try the v max 35 gr round so i have phoned most of the gun shops in cambs,ive also tried some in Norfolk and some in Suffolk,[ i have not strayed into Essex yet]. but i cannot get hold of any, one local shop tried to add some to an order from his supplier for me and the person he spoke to just laughed.........so i ask where on earth do you get them from? indeed i ask anybody the same question especially in cambs,norfolk,suffolk or even essex....dph.

[JRDS]

hello nick i would like to try the v max 35 gr round so i have phoned most of the gun shops in cambs,ive also tried some in Norfolk and some in Suffolk,[ i have not strayed into Essex yet]. but i cannot get hold of any, one local shop tried to add some to an order from his supplier for me and the person he spoke to just laughed.........so i ask where on earth do you get them from? indeed i ask anybody the same question especially in cambs,norfolk,suffolk or even essex....dph.

 

The Hornady importer?

 

Tim Hanman or whatever his name is advertises in Guntrader and lists them, your shop should be able to order from him.

[markbivvy]

Tim Hanman or whatever his name is

hannam.(01977 681639)

[JRDS]

Tim Hanman or whatever his name is

hannam.(01977 681639)

 

Thats the one

[skany]

I bought a SH rifle of a forum member which was sposed to shoots speer tnts very well & 35g Vmax well!

 

I really only wanted to use the Vmax due to the higher BC count so i loaded a few up

 

5@ the standerd oal & the rest @ 20tho of the lands(these bullets were a LOT longer then the factor length!)

 

The bullets near the lands halved the groups & i was well pleased

 

Andy

[markbivvy]

try a box of 40 grn blitzkings.