10 Bore cases

[greenergp]

I am just about to buy some 10 bore cases should i get the once fired Remingtons from Claygame or the new Cheddites, just starting out in 10 bore steel loading so i am wondering whats the best for a "beginner"

Edited July 25, 2016 by greenergp

[motty]

I can't see any once fired 10 gauge cases on Claygame's site. I would say they are the easiest to use. The new Cheddites would cost more to send as they are primed.

[TONY R]

If you can get the Remingtons get them, the Chedite cases are not ideal they are a different internal dimention RSI or even TPS wads are not a fantastic fit and you lose some pressure on what is a relatively low presure type of case anyway, they will work but the remingtons are a better case in my experience.

the black chedites From john morish seem a bit stouter than the first red ones, quite why the colour should make such a difference is a bit of a mystery but if you look at the white gold cases in 12s compared to say a clear pigeon case colours in the same cases can make a difference sometimes.

Im using Winchesters at the moment i picked up a huge number a month or so ago these winchesters are working great , i am running my old 42 gram BBB steel load and my 50 gram copper in in them with only a minor powder adjustment with no aparent problems i am liking the winchesters.

[greenergp]

Thanks i have just ordered the Remingtons i plan to use them with SAM 1 wads along with no3 copper shot and steel bb's i have steel powder and longshot.

I have the RSI and the Cheddite manual, but any help with loads would be greatfully recieved.

[rbrowning2]

Just tried to look for the chedite black cases on John morish website but the siite has gone, does he have a new site?

[TONY R]

Just tried to look for the chedite black cases on John morish website but the siite has gone, does he have a new site?

Just rang a mate up who deals with John a bit, Johns site is down at the mo will be about another 6 days he told my mate Off top of his head he has ONce fired Remingtons at 28.50 for 50 and Chedites the black ones are 34 i think he said a hundred, im on for a hundred of each of these myself, Hope that helps.

Edited July 26, 2016 by TONY R

[TONY R]

Thanks i have just ordered the Remingtons i plan to use them with SAM 1 wads along with no3 copper shot and steel bb's i have steel powder and longshot.

I have the RSI and the Cheddite manual, but any help with loads would be greatfully recieved.

Tractor driving at the moment but for your steel loads in those Remington cases use a 42 gram BBB load use Federal 209A or CCI 209M for good ignition and RSI sam 1 wad Anything from 38 to 43 grain is ok i found between best patterns in terror choke .720 and .705 best between 40 and 43 grains so so test in that region for your best results is my advice.

Im talking later A steel lot numbers here im on lot 24 at the moment, You will drop a little velocity with the Swap to CCI 209Ms but you will gain more uniform pressures and I am acctualy using them more now than i used to do, i think the Hotter Federal 209As are less nessasary as A steel gets that bit faster in the latter batches. And i favour the more uniform pressures the CCIs offer. Its your choice at the end of the day.

copper its a bit more Faffy wading loading etc i need the book for the details i have not loaded enough to know the exact details i ended up with ill PM you as soon as i can what i did exactly.

Edited July 26, 2016 by TONY R

[Huntingwithhawks]

I think I have some 10 bore cases if you are interested?

[motty]

£28.50 for 50 once fired Remingtons? Bit steep!

[greenergp]

I think I have some 10 bore cases if you are interested?

 

PM on its way

[300rum]

The 10g remington cases are new cases not once fired

[TONY R]

The 10g remington cases are new cases not once fired

AH! sorry i got the info second hand mate rang him up must have misunderstood thanks for clearing that up.

[greenergp]

 

Im talking later A steel lot numbers here im on lot 24 at the moment, You will drop a little velocity with the Swap to CCI 209Ms but you will gain more uniform pressures and I am acctualy using them more now than i used to do, i think the Hotter Federal 209As are less nessasary as A steel gets that bit faster in the latter batches.

Could i use cheddite cx2000 primers? as that is all i have at the moment

[TONY R]

Could i use cheddite cx2000 primers? as that is all i have at the moment

A steel really needs a good hot primer for proper ignition, They will work go bang etc but for full potential Federals o209Ar CCI 209Ms are the way to go.

You can equal the performance by uping the powder charge and flooding it out that way, you will even make equal speeds this way, But its not only a waste of powder no matter how slight but in cold weather or hot humid weather there is the risk of a more variable performance, These modern tend progressives need Good clean ignition And a Steel is a bit of a rouge in this respect.

Edited July 28, 2016 by TONY R

[motty]

A steel really needs a good hot primer for proper ignition, They will work go bang etc but for full potential Federals o209Ar CCI 209Ms are the way to go.

You can equal the performance by uping the powder charge and flooding it out that way, you will even make equal speeds this way, But its not only a waste of powder no matter how slight but in cold weather or hot humid weather there is the risk of a more variable performance, These modern progressives need Good clean ignition And a Steel is a bit of a rouge in this respect.

Do you really know your stuff or do you just make it up?

[TONY R]

Do you really know your stuff or do you just make it up?

Elaborate.

Edited July 27, 2016 by TONY R

[greenergp]

Could you use Fiocchi 616 [209 type] if not i can see if my local shop could order me some CCI209M's

 

 

In my search for primers RFD's are selling 100 primers for around £5 per 100 but shipping is around £30 or unavailable it has to be collected at the shop.

 

But if you look at airsoft sites they are selling primers [cheddite] at around £7.50 per 100 and shipping is only £4.50, how can they manage to ship at a decent price??

 

None of them are selling the ones i need though so its not much use for me

Edited July 27, 2016 by greenergp

[motty]

Elaborate.

Well, it would be easy to waffle on about this and that regarding reloading and many would never question anything.

For example, I have used some cracking loads with cx2000 and Alliant Steel, yet you state it perhaps shouldn't be paired. So, is your advice really worthwhile, or do you just make it up?

Is what you say based on anything scientific, or is it just guesswork?

Edited July 27, 2016 by motty

[TONY R]

Could you use Fiocchi 616 [209 type] if not i can see if my local shop could order me some CCI209M's

 

 

In my search for primers RFD's are selling 100 primers for around £5 per 100 but shipping is around £30 or unavailable it has to be collected at the shop.

 

But if you look at airsoft sites they are selling primers [cheddite] at around £7.50 per 100 and shipping is only £4.50, how can they manage to ship at a decent price??

 

None of them are selling the ones i need though so its not much use for me

You are not gaining anything with Fiocchi 616s they are little different to CX2000s Just try the load with The cx 20000s subed as is the Pressures wont be quite the same and as such the velocity, but it will still be ok, its better to have what I used but Needs must use whats there re primers.

Look on the A steel tub base there will be a lot number see what it is and let me know proba bly bettere to take it to pms acctualy, Ill try and get you bang on with that load i put together straight out of the starting gate so to speak.

Edited July 27, 2016 by TONY R

[TONY R]

Well, it would be easy to waffle on about this and that regarding reloading and many would never question anything.

For example, I have used some cracking loads with cx2000 and Alliant Steel, yet you state it perhaps shouldn't be paired. So, is your advice really worthwhile, or do you just make it up?

Is what you say based on anything scientific, or is it just guesswork?

A steel is not the easiest powder to get ignited esspecialy in the cold, the loads will work with CX2000s and do the deed i never said they would not work or i never used them with A steel. but they wont deliver the pressures and as such the acctual velocity in the load i mentioned, its that simple a goose may not see the difference but it will be there. It depends how serious you are about what you do or have. Everything i do in this sport and some others i participate in i try to give it my all and this increases my enthusiasum and enjoyment from a spot i love, if that some how offends you which it seems to constantly i am truthfully very sorry that is not my intention, i simply just try to share what i have learned for the benefit of others and improve the quality of like minded peop[le in our chosen sport.

Edited July 27, 2016 by TONY R

[rbrowning2]

Pressure and velocity have no direct relationship, when looking at loads results I have had tested at the proof house it is possible for the shot with the lowest pressure to have the highest velocity within the same lot tested. In fact it is not the norm at all for the highest pressure to deliver the highest velocity in the lot.

 

However without suffient pressure the powder will burn dirty or not be all consumed. The primer plays an important part in the ignition process to ensure the powder performs to its best especially for slow burning powders.

 

So using a different primer could change a nice clean burning load to a dirty one and this will certainly become more of a problem in cold winter weather.

 

A quality load requires, primer and powder type (single or double based) to be in harmony and that is never more important than when the cartridge is required to perform at it best in very cold weather in any part of the world.

[motty]

You didn't really answer my question, Tony.

I don't believe everything I read/hear without question, but bull baffles brains. What you say may be spot on, but it could equally be a load of old rubbish. How would I know?

Is your advice based on proper testing, done as scientifically as possible, and analyzed or do you just kind of make up your own results?

Edited July 28, 2016 by motty

[TONY R]

Pressure and velocity have no direct relationship, when looking at loads results I have had tested at the proof house it is possible for the shot with the lowest pressure to have the highest velocity within the same lot tested. In fact it is not the norm at all for the highest pressure to deliver the highest velocity in the lot.

 

However without suffient pressure the powder will burn dirty or not be all consumed. The primer plays an important part in the ignition process to ensure the powder performs to its best especially for slow burning powders.

 

So using a different primer could change a nice clean burning load to a dirty one and this will certainly become more of a problem in cold winter weather.

 

A quality load requires, primer and powder type (single or double based) to be in harmony and that is never more important than when the cartridge is required to perform at it best in very cold weather in any part of the world.

Agree my thoughts with A steel are it tends a hotish primer to get it to burn right esspecialy in the cold and ultimately make the dessired pressure to perform how i wanted it to In the case of the load i mentioned in this thread.

If as i exlained you load it with a CX2000 it will work and be safe but not make the velocity as the powder will not burn properly.

It is not a load on the upper raggy edge of safetey so it will in this case be safe, but as you point out it is not always the case, In the case of the two hot high briscance whatever you chose to call it Primers the CCI209M and The federal 209A they need less powder in the loads they are used in than say if you used a CX2000 for example, and if you were running as a good example RSI 105 load as it is published with the white box winchester primers a milder primer, and you subed this primer with a fed 209A you WOULD without any doubt be over pressure its that simple.

On the same load RSI 105 if you sub the White box winchester primer for a Blue box winchester as Winchester and Allegedley RSI sujest that load will not make the load specs over a chrono.

But it will be safe and the average person who has no test equiptment to hand or chronographs few if any loads will use RSI105 modified in such a way and be oblivious to the shortfall and probably still get results even good enough results, but it wont be as efficient or perform like RSI intended it to, so sub for a cx2000 in this load and your on your own.

Add to all this the lot to lot variations of A steel and then it gets even more complex, But again dependent on the load it may or may not bite you if you switch components about like this.

Now as for CX2000s and A steel they will work some loads require them Lightening steel data for example uses CX2000s and A steel and these are boith clean burning fast and totaly safe a lot of knowledge time and development went in to that little manual and there are a few hard to beat loads in there. So it is down to whats required in the load not always are changes significant in a loads safetey or performance but they can have a profound inffluence on the loads charecteristics safetey and performance.

[TONY R]

You didn't really answer my question, Tony.

I don't believe everything I read/hear without question, but bull baffles brains. What you say may be spot on, but it could equally be a load of old rubbish. How would I know?

Is your advice based on proper testing, done as scientifically as possible, and analyzed or do you just kind of make up your own results?

Come on im not a scientist i am just a hairy armed wildfowler whith 40 plus years experience and a family history before me in the sport had everything from .410s to 4s and out as many times a week in the season as i can after pinks, everything else from when they show up on or around the 17th of september is secondary to hunting them down.

I have no formal scientific training but i Cot my city and guilds my tech cert and am a AMIMI in motor vehichle from hudersfield university in 1980 so i have a understanding of Engineering up to a point and i got a A level in physics and maths so i can add up and i know that voltage over input equals resistance. oh and i can gap your points on your mk1 escort if it stops.

Tested .. Well i dont test every thing i load but i try to run a fair % through my old test cannon if i can i was lucky enough to get this when a mate went abroad and i have made good use of it since, its not high tech or anything close to high tech, but its what historicaly loads were developed on profesionaly and its better than WHATS THAT CASE LOOK LIKE AFTER FIRING any day.

This gun and a chronograph keep me in the picture on whats going on what worked and what didnt. and it gives to the opotunity to ask yourself why a load Changed in pressure when you did X.... OR Y. Its a handy feature that, and as i write everything i play with down it helps me build up a picture, so i guess yes i am as scientific as i can practicaly be and i probably have more insight into what works and why than a fair % of other Hairy armed Wildfowlers.

Others may have limitless finds to test all loads some may have transducer equiptment to test in which case i would like to meet them and be their bestest bestest friend.

I have not got ten grand to throw at transducers or even 4 grand for a cheaper set of gear, but my old cannon kindly donated by a friend helps me stay honest and thus i feel gives me a decent chance of passing on as accurate info as i can for those interested on the pigeon watch massive.

Im not a fraud a crank im not a great writer spell checker or prof reader either and i dont get things right everytime, im a mortal and dont walk on water like some do on here, i just wade through the mud that is non tox and try and be as good as i can be at what i love doing, could be i try too hard i dont know its my loss of i do but developing loads gives me an EDGE i call it call it confidence if you like, but i know when i jump up throw the gun to my shoulder and stick some leed on that pink i have done my level best to put together a few chosen loads at my expense with my precious time to know cthat part of this equasion is as good and humaine as it can be, ive just got to do my part then and get next the gun and then ME! to get results which i strive to acchieve, if you think im wrong in any of this fine but its just the way i roll sorry.

 

cannon

crushers

chart

Edited July 28, 2016 by TONY R