Continental Shooter Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Right chaps, Here's my beginner's question for today; thi sis on the assumption i will get the permit i've applied for ... which is not guaranteed anyway... So, for the past few months i've been walking the estuary from low water up to see how the tide comes in and where natural hiding places would be. On my first visit it appeared obvious there were no creeks or ditches on this side of the river to hid into; good thing was : plenty cockles and mussels for me to bring home (and justify the next trip out to the missus) So one side of the bank (rocky bottom) is uphill so, the tide come in slower and from the opposit side; also, not muds whatsoever; only a massive rocky bottom with few sandy patches (cokles beds) no deeper than 30 inches (i dug them) . The other side of the bank instead is 100% flat sand from the sore back tohigh water and, if anything there is a big dune where the river bed makes the corner .... but that's about it. The marsh like bit is enclosed between the high water mark and the woodland area 100 x 300 yds Now, in the past year I read a lot about fowling from US to UK books (i must have about 30-40 of them) and the common themes are: creeks, ditches, mud flats .... now, here i don have any of these so, the question is: where am i supposed to set up? Any pointers would be much appreciated; i am planning a day out on the 1st with the wee man, an overnight camping session just to see if there's anything about; although on all my spring outings i've only seen huge amounts of tuffed ducks with the odd mallard and snipe flying by. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GADWALL41 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Hello, firstly let me say I do not know that estuary or stretch of coastline . Reading your post and looking at your pic several things spring to mind , including an absolute worst case Spring tide scenario , which from your pic is not going to be Your red Line . Most important things first and not telling anybody what to do , I would not be bringing any child of mine onto an estuary I did not know inside out by Day and by night . As a shooter new to the sport remember if you set up below the HWM on an incoming tide you will be forced to move and doing so mid flight may come at a cost of missed opportunities, or worse. Set up above the HWM until you have more experience , that way you can move along the shoreline easily to intercept birds that are not coming into your decoys , as you mentioned passing Tufteds etc. See my drawing on your map , those black arrows are on a creek running into your river or out of view to the sea which looks to flood and is Above your High tide Mark , so either You have misread this map or I have ?, either way a dangerous situation .That tide will flood up to those black lines . Other questions I would have before I could say set up here or there would be , what is the prevailing wind direction and are there any large bodies of fresh water close by inland ?. Might be best to Buddy up if you can and learn the ways of the water there , that water will Kill you if you let . I don't mean to preach and yes I'm sure all our blood is starting to rise a bit as the days creep by . pic here Edited August 12, 2017 by GADWALL41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Unless the landowner has given permission shooting above the high water mark in Scotland is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GADWALL41 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Unless the landowner has given permission shooting above the high water mark in Scotland is illegal. As C S states in his 2nd line , Permits applied for , which would include access permissions also , one would imagine . I am well aware of the law in Both Scotland AND England and Wales regarding HWM and accessing same , that's down to CS . Why I chose to reply was because 50 + views in no one had answered and I was concerned for the safety of both of them on the foreshore , as I said I do not know that estuary . Still I would rather see him alive ,prosecuted by The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal for whatever above HWM transgressions and not to have to read of another Tragedy by drowning . Edited August 12, 2017 by GADWALL41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Unless the landowner has given permission shooting above the high water mark in Scotland is illegal. That is where my problem is; hence hwy i marked the HWM Gadwall, thanks for the pointers, j ust to clarify: the 1st will be no more that a walk with the gun at low water (or on a dropping tide); perhaps watching other wildfowlers from the woodland and i will not be venturing too far out from the HWM; it's more to combine my son's willingness with a bit of a recce for when the season kicks in (and he will not be allowed) On the right hand side, the tide, even on a spring tide, is slow to come up (with little or no wind) as it's a sloping bank made of huge roky plaques with a drop of 1-1.5 feet from on plaque to anotehr so the water tends to enter from the sandy bank and then push in from the point and fill the estuary 'level by level. that said, i watched this as i was fishing for flatties in the river and only walk my way back in the first 2 hours of the flood. For what is concerning the marsh like bit, i never seen the high water flooding it; there is a dune that separates the seafront from the marsh and is 2 ft wide and sits almost 2 fit higher than sea level. even on spring tides, the water mark seem to remain below what it looks like a natuarl breakwater; I also thought that would be a good (if not the only obvious) place to set up but as above... that won't be possible unless the permit (which i haven got yet) stipulates otherwise. There's a small lake 10 miles away and one reservoire 20 miles away; other than than is pretty dry As for buddying; i tired but my nature let me down... i have a family to attend and shooting is only recreational; i foresee not being able to go out on the best days due to work and family commitments which makes me the worse ever buddy on heart Also, i suddenly realised that when it comes to sharing; whether this is a mark or a farmer's name, people are mostly all talks (especially up here); thjey all advise to share and go with someone else... but nobody wants to be that someone else... I prefer to take things slowly and do it by myself; or even paying, than having to relay or, worse, beg for help. After all, for me is a sport which add something to the pot and gets me out of the house ... but for other is a sectet to be guarded with life... never mind cheers, Edited August 12, 2017 by Continental Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 That is where my problem is; hence hwy i marked the HWM Gadwall, thanks for the pointers, j ust to clarify: the 1st will be no more that a walk with the gun at low water (or on a dropping tide); perhaps watching other wildfowlers from the woodland and i will not be venturing too far out from the HWM; it's more to combine my son's willingness with a bit of a recce for when the season kicks in (and he will not be allowed) On the right hand side, the tide, even on a spring tide, is slow to come up (with little or no wind) as it's a sloping bank made of huge roky plaques with a drop of 1-1.5 feet from on plaque to anotehr so the water tends to enter from the sandy bank and then push in from the point and fill the estuary 'level by level. that said, i watched this as i was fishing for flatties in the river and only walk my way back in the first 2 hours of the flood. For what is concerning the marsh like bit, i never seen the high water flooding it; there is a dune that separates the seafront from the marsh and is 2 ft wide and sits almost 2 fit higher than sea level. even on spring tides, the water mark seem to remain below what it looks like a natuarl breakwater; I also thought that would be a good (if not the only obvious) place to set up but as above... that won't be possible unless the permit (which i haven got yet) stipulates otherwise. As for buddying; i tired but my nature let me down... i have a family to attend and shooting is only recreational; i foresee not being able to go out on the best days due to work and family commitments which makes me the worse ever buddy on heart Also, i suddenly realised that when it comes to sharing; whether this is a mark or a farmer's name, people are mostly all talks (especially up here); thjey all advise to share and go with someone else... but nobody wants to be that someone else... I prefer to take things slowly and do it by myself; or even paying, than having to relay or, worse, beg for help. After all, for me is a sport which add something to the pot and gets me out of the house ... but for other is a sectet to be guarded with life... never mind cheers, Consider joining the local club, ESAWC, befriend a few locals from that who I'm sure would advise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 As C S states in his 2nd line , Permits applied for , which would include access permissions also , one would imagine . I am well aware of the law in Both Scotland AND England and Wales regarding HWM and accessing same , that's down to CS . Why I chose to reply was because 50 + views in no one had answered and I was concerned for the safety of both of them on the foreshore , as I said I do not know that estuary . Still I would rather see him alive ,prosecuted by The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal for whatever above HWM transgressions and not to have to read of another Tragedy by drowning . Fair enough but I certainly wouldn't be encouraging a newcomer to be breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Sent a few emails asking for info on joining and activities ...never heard back ... As i said, work commitments keep me busy weekday so, can't really do a moonflight at 3 am in Aberdeen having to go to work at 7/8 AM in Edinburgh city centre ... also, at times i am away for weeks, abroad, following projects so... i'm also not the type that will ditch family for a flight unless conditions are phenomenal ... It's happened to me before on pigeon or shore angling where i tried to buddy up with someone but if you call someone few times and he's never available, you'll stop calling him so, not blaming them... just need to live with it until i retire or win the lottery. So, in the meantime i need to make the most of it even if that's on my tod (which i don't dislike) and try to figure out things as i go along... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Sent a few emails asking for info on joining and activities ...never heard back ... As i said, work commitments keep me busy weekday so, can't really do a moonflight at 3 am in Aberdeen having to go to work at 7/8 AM in Edinburgh city centre ... also, at times i am away for weeks, abroad, following projects so... i'm also not the type that will ditch family for a flight unless conditions are phenomenal ... It's happened to me before on pigeon or shore angling where i tried to buddy up with someone but if you call someone few times and he's never available, you'll stop calling him so, not blaming them... just need to live with it until i retire or win the lottery. So, in the meantime i need to make the most of it even if that's on my tod (which i don't dislike) and try to figure out things as i go along... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max4wildfowler Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 It takes time and it might be at least a couple of seasons, or more, before you begin to suss out a new piece of foreshore. As Gadwall says, along with his other excellent advice, be careful. Especially on incoming spring tides with a strong onshore wind (and the dangers can be increased if this scenario is combined with heavy flows of river/stream water coming into a bay). You say it is a permit area. It's well worth a chat with the warden/ local wildfowlers on the particular dangers of the bay. Local fowlers are not going to give you tips on their favourite hot spots (these can be sussed out by yourself over a long period of observation of from a very safe position), but they will readily give a novice safety advice of situations to avoid. Be patient and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thanks for the advice I don't want the best spots; that would be taking out half of the fun beside i like to think i am pretty good at figuring out marks and flightlines on my own my problem is that if i look at the Tay or the Eden estuary for instance, even on google maps; i can kinda see where i want to go and set up (providing i never really explored the area) however here even if i've been there few times; there ain't any of the feature i would normally be looking for on an estuary (other than that creek upriver) so, that's kind of threw my plans off ... what i mean is: if i know i want to set up ina specific creek, gulley or behing a big rock, then i would go out at low tide and check how the sorrounding are affected by the rising tide (which is what i was wanting to do on the first) ... not having a specific spot in mind make that excercise to generic if you will Never mind; i'll do what I had in mind, which you also suggested: watch from afar and see what others (if anyone) will do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B525 LIGHT Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 You set up under where fowl are moving but never where they roost. Fowling requires lying on your back at times, there isnt always the luxury of a creek. Use what natural cover there is, above all dont build a tall up right hide and keep very still. Every marsh has its favoured places. Youll learn these with experience. You wont know these until the fowl arrive at the end of September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 You set up under where fowl are moving but never where they roost. Fowling requires lying on your back at times, there isnt always the luxury of a creek. Use what natural cover there is, above all dont build a tall up right hide and keep very still. Every marsh has its favoured places. Youll learn these with experience. You wont know these until the fowl arrive at the end of September. Right, cool, Thanks. see this was kind of my problem; always reading in books and articles about creeks and banks that made me worry about sitting on my tod in the middle of a mussles bed. I have eyed a couple of man made rows of concrete blocks which are kinda tall and a bit further out in the mussels beds but not sure they were suitable. Obviously i'll need to be there and watch; over time i'll get the hang of it. But i wrote to the ESWC see if they can do with an extra member, although not really active Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.