.243 variation. Accompanied by a mentor.

[smith271973]

Hi Everyone, I've held my FAC for 1 1/2 years for .17hmr and .223, I have recently applied for and received a variation for a .243 for deer stalking and fox control. My FLO insisted that I am accompanied by a mentor whilst deer stalking, but can shoot foxes and zero on my own. I am fine with this as it's good to be shown the ropes by an old hand. However, upon receipt of my updated FAC the wording states as follows.

 

"The .243 rifle, .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting fox/deer and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot and accompanied by Mr ******"

 

I have obviously left out the name of my mentor. I read the above statement as meaning that Mr ****** has to accompany me when I use the .243 at all times. I called my FLO, he assured me that I only need to be mentored whilst deer stalking, but I'm worried that if I'm out foxing, and for some reason meet up with the police, when they examine my FAC they will expect me to be accompanied by my mentor.

 

Anyone else being mentored for deer? Am I right to worry about foxing and zeroing on my own?

 

p.s. Great forum. Thank for any info.

 

Simon

[deadeye ive]

Having the wording Chief of Police signifies a semi open ticket .How much ammo have you put through the .223 in 18 months because if it's not alot then that is probably the reason being accompanied by a mentor at ALL times is required when using the .243 .Have you got a DSC ?

 

What baffles me is a .223 is just as lethal and your OK with that going solo

 

PS

 

Welcome to the forum

[tulkyuk]

It would suggest that Mr ******, should be with you at all times whilst you are using the 243 - thats how i would read it and am quite sure thats how a copper would read it too!!! - be very careful to have the wording checked with your FAO as i dont think with the way it is, it wouldn't stand up in court if the police pulled you up about something and you said you are allowed to have it out foxing on your own.

[njc110381]

I'd take that as needing a mentor at all times, so word of mouth from your FEO isn't really going to help you if you're ever stopped. I'd be getting out with the mentor, letting off as many rounds as you possibly can for the record, and then asking to drop the mentor because you've had a lot of experience with it (the ammo count will help this bit). Good luck with it whatever happens, at least you have the variation

[smith271973]

Thanks for the advice everyone, Dead-ive no I haven't got DSC but I do shoot .223 a lot (run a farm and have set up an informal range for my friends and I). Mr ****** is a good shooting buddy so I guess it won't be that much of an issue, just a shame I won't be able to have the full use of the .243.

[moses]

Thanks for the advice everyone, Dead-ive no I haven't got DSC but I do shoot .223 a lot (run a farm and have set up an informal range for my friends and I). Mr ****** is a good shooting buddy so I guess it won't be that much of an issue, just a shame I won't be able to have the full use of the .243.

 

Seems a bit strange to me, I had my DSC1 before I applied for my FAC but prior to that I had only been out stalking a few times.

They gave me a 6.5x55 for deer and fox, a 270 for deer and a 22 for vermin. The only thing they asked for was a letter from the guy I stalk with to say I knew what I was doing and was safe, a copy of my dsc and letters for land use for each calibre.

Are you a BASC member, if so call their firearms dept and speak to Mike Eavely, I found him very helpful.

 

Moses

[starlight32]

This difference in Firearms control across the regions really does surprise me. There just seems to be no sort of across the board standards with all this.

 

I have neighbour whose son wished to apply for FAC, He asked me what i thought on the land he owned which was 16 acres in total. I thought he was on sticky ground for even a .22lr, but when he applied the FEO gave .22lr,.17hmr & .22-250 with no previous experience to a 19 year old, he does not even have a SGC!

 

Not knocking it though- all good for shooting, but it dismays me when I read these posts from other individuals on this site with many, many years experience of Firearms having to be curtailed with these daft restrictions when they are just not needed.

 

What do you think?

 

Regards starlight32

[mry716]

I find the idea of a mentor quite a good one and I know various Constabularies are going down this road. It starts you out on Deer Stalking in a way that offers you the best of both worlds - access to land/stalking of your mentor and also his wealth of experience and guidance.

 

One thing does concern me though and that is your FAC has restricted FAC condition ie not open. Normally with a Mentor clause an open certificate is granted.

 

I think you need to appraise yourself of circumstances generally, perhaps through posts on this and of course other more Deer orientated Forums, and then, as previously suggested, talk to BASC and let them assist with revising your conditions. Sometimes having a knowledgeable person consulting on your behalf will achieve far more than you can on your own with limited background experience. The police can on occasions be rather too dogmatic and you could quite easily create a difficult situation for the future or give in long before the end of successful discussions.

[njc110381]

I agree with what mry has to say on the subject, and agree total novices should have at least some tuition from a more experienced shot before being allowed such a powerful rifle. I must say though, as said above if you are safe with a .223 then why not .243? The rifle you already own is a potent round that also needs respect and understanding to be used safely, so in your case I'm surprised it's this hard to get a .243. I was told by my FEO that there are three groups of firearms, rimfire, .22 centrefire, and large calibre. Both rimfire and .22cf are ok for new shooters (I could have had a .223 as well as my HMR), but a deer calibre needs experience or a DSC. I myself find it quite a shock that a new shooter can have anything bigger than a rimfire without tuition, but that's just my view. I didn't want the power of a .223 when I applied for my FAC, it scared me to think of what could happen if I made a mistake. Hopefully my variation for a 6.5x55 will go ok, I don't mind the mentor clause because I'd prefer to be accompanied at first anyway!

[sweepy]

I too am in the process of applying of a fac variation to get either a 222.50 or 243 when I spoke to my fao he told me that the police will insist that I am accompained at all times for the first year,this is going to cause me some what of a problem but It looks as though am going to have no choice.In the respect of safety I have a sgc since I was 10 years old was a gamekeeper on a near by estate and I hold a FAC all be it for a 22rf,so am now coming up to 27 yrs experience so I know safety is paramount I even hold certificates for all gun handling issused by the goverment for a course I was on for college.I just hope I don't have to name mentor as I have 2 people who I maybe able to call on.

Also was told the person accompaining me must hold fac for same calibre rifle as I want.

 

Sweepy

[grasshopper]

A few people i know have had a little clause with deer stalking variations with Durham constabulary ie - proof of experience with Deer.

 

Take the DSC 1 course, not only is it a very informative 1 but it will make it quicker and easier to be allowed to use your .243 on your own.

 

Also as previously said,BASC do give really sound advice in these matters.

 

It,s a shame your restricted as it,s obvious you know how to handle a rifle..good luck mate

 

GH

[Devilishdave]

I got an open ticket for .22 .17 and 243 on my first aplication. I have got a background with weapons but never personaly owned a rifle before. It strikes me as strange that a person with years of experiance like your self is getting the runaround.

 

Dave

[Eagleman]

I read it exactly as tulkyuk. You MUST have the mentor with you at all times you use the .243. I have similar conditions for my .270.

 

The idea would be to go out accompanied several times and then get a letter from your mentor to say that you are ok with the gun (presuming you are) and then write to Police for a (free) variation to have the mentoring condition lifted.