Teague 3/8s not as good as 1/4s?

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Most of my shooting relies on er......Gausswork   !   😊

That rings a bell. I just close two eyes.

[wymberley]

5 hours ago, Mike_ESK said:

I've reached out to them to see what they say, I'm so very close to going to buy some 1/2 Brileys from Chris Potter - only thing is they will be heavier than my titaniums and will need to rebalance my gun, which Im loathed to do....

 

12 weeks for an order from the USA for some titaniums....

 

The amount of lead I've thrown at things since getting them would give me a good average of data, I thought I was just not finding the right lead but its really not the case. I will be going to west Kent shooting school Friday to do some testing but I'm sure im going to see massive gaps in pattern at 50m 

Please feel absolutely free to ignore this should you wish. It must be said that I know so little about clay shooting that I don't even qualify as dangerous.

Using Teague's own figure of 69% at 35 yards for their 3/8 choke, and all things being equal this would equate to some 32% at 55 yards (50m). In order to keep the pellet count up as high as is reasonable, I'll assume No8 shot and 1oz (28g). So, we have 144 pellets in the 30" pattern circle. Little bit iffy now as most shotgun ballistic info' stops at 35% - just below TC -  and we are at 32. Give or take, this gives between 46 and 51% for the percentage of the 144 pellets that we can expect on average to find within the central 20 " circle - 66 to73. It will be realised that as the 20 to30" pattern ring has a greater area than the central 20" circle the pattern density in the ring will be less. The 144 30" circle count is known to give a normal range of between some 5 to 8 non overlapping holes each of 5" in diameter. (As far as I'm aware there's no figure given for the 20" circle.)

This is where I fall down. Had the pigeon been of the wood variety, I would have been looking at a pellet count of c180 and just 2 or 3 vacant holes. We know that the 20" circle area is 314 sq" but I have no idea of what is the recognised average area that a clay presents. I know the dimeter is some 4.33" so for this purpose could we call it 6sq" (edge on) which would give c52 such areas. I'm also going to assume the need for just one pellet to break the clay. We have an average of 70 pellets. @Westley is happy with Gauss so let's stay with him as we know that shotgun patterns conform to the probability theorem and also the Gaussian law of distribution - the bell shaped curve. This tells us that for a little over a 1 pellet average strike per target we will only be successful approaching some 70% of the time. Would that be considered a championship winning score? The law of diminishing return negates a 100% score so we have to settle on 2.5 strikes on average to give a success rate of 90%. We're already relying on luck. To avoid this and assuming my 6sq" is valid we need to up the 70 strikes in the 20" to 130. This is some 29% which equates  to some 55% for the 30" which we can get out to 45 yards by using 3/4 choke. I concede that the 6sq" may well be somewhat low, but as said I know not - a springing teal at, say, some 10+ sq" changes things considerably although perhaps relying on just one pellet to do the job may well not be ideal. Again, I know not.

Good luck for Friday. 

[Mike_ESK]

On 25/02/2025 at 20:55, wymberley said:

Please feel absolutely free to ignore this should you wish. It must be said that I know so little about clay shooting that I don't even qualify as dangerous.

Using Teague's own figure of 69% at 35 yards for their 3/8 choke, and all things being equal this would equate to some 32% at 55 yards (50m). In order to keep the pellet count up as high as is reasonable, I'll assume No8 shot and 1oz (28g). So, we have 144 pellets in the 30" pattern circle. Little bit iffy now as most shotgun ballistic info' stops at 35% - just below TC -  and we are at 32. Give or take, this gives between 46 and 51% for the percentage of the 144 pellets that we can expect on average to find within the central 20 " circle - 66 to73. It will be realised that as the 20 to30" pattern ring has a greater area than the central 20" circle the pattern density in the ring will be less. The 144 30" circle count is known to give a normal range of between some 5 to 8 non overlapping holes each of 5" in diameter. (As far as I'm aware there's no figure given for the 20" circle.)

This is where I fall down. Had the pigeon been of the wood variety, I would have been looking at a pellet count of c180 and just 2 or 3 vacant holes. We know that the 20" circle area is 314 sq" but I have no idea of what is the recognised average area that a clay presents. I know the dimeter is some 4.33" so for this purpose could we call it 6sq" (edge on) which would give c52 such areas. I'm also going to assume the need for just one pellet to break the clay. We have an average of 70 pellets. @Westley is happy with Gauss so let's stay with him as we know that shotgun patterns conform to the probability theorem and also the Gaussian law of distribution - the bell shaped curve. This tells us that for a little over a 1 pellet average strike per target we will only be successful approaching some 70% of the time. Would that be considered a championship winning score? The law of diminishing return negates a 100% score so we have to settle on 2.5 strikes on average to give a success rate of 90%. We're already relying on luck. To avoid this and assuming my 6sq" is valid we need to up the 70 strikes in the 20" to 130. This is some 29% which equates  to some 55% for the 30" which we can get out to 45 yards by using 3/4 choke. I concede that the 6sq" may well be somewhat low, but as said I know not - a springing teal at, say, some 10+ sq" changes things considerably although perhaps relying on just one pellet to do the job may well not be ideal. Again, I know not.

Good luck for Friday. 

I should not off the 100ft ray tower highest driven and the other tower shots I took my 410 and with a full choke and 11g carts hit a 110mm clay 6 out of 10 times 

So I'm going to say skill isn't the issue but I think I know the issue now.

As the taper of the chokes are one long cone the shot string is being dragged out "more uniform" means more spread per pellet. The gaps forming front to back must be vast on them, as it travels downrange it extends out. It must be so patchy it's simply useless.

Which is maddening as it should hold better than 1/4. I've got some beretta 1/2 coming to see if they work better at distance. 

I don't fancy 3/4

[Mike_ESK]

Teague came back to me :

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Thank you for your enquiry.

 

Due to the Beretta Tribore system we would recommend using a 1/2 choke or 5/8. 

 

The 3/8 will start to blow the pattern, which is what you are seeing.

 

best wishes

The Team at Teague Precision Chokes

 

[wymberley]

18 hours ago, Mike_ESK said:

As the taper of the chokes are one long cone the shot string is being dragged out

Following extensive testing at the RCMS at Shrivenham it was concluded that open chokes give a longer shot string. If you want to further a 40 yard pattern with 1/4 choke by some 10 yards you're going to need Super Full Plus.

[enfieldspares]

5 hours ago, Mike_ESK said:

Teague came back to me :

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Thank you for your enquiry.

 

Due to the Beretta Tribore system we would recommend using a 1/2 choke or 5/8. 

 

The 3/8 will start to blow the pattern, which is what you are seeing.

 

best wishes

The Team at Teague Precision Chokes

 

Thank you. It is always welcome when the OP tells us how the story ended. Too many times there's no feedback and a thread remains in limbo..some for years!

[Mike_ESK]

On 27/02/2025 at 22:34, enfieldspares said:

Thank you. It is always welcome when the OP tells us how the story ended. Too many times there's no feedback and a thread remains in limbo..some for years!

No problem.

 

To note I put in the 1/2's from Beretta and spanked birds at very very far distances, then went onto the pool shoot. Shot a 23 which drew with Brightman and beat the big man himself with a 22. They spanked me on the 100 but small victories!