harpo_the_bad Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Hello people, I've been looking for a target club recently because I want to 'upgrade' from .177 to something with more range as well as more fox stopping power I phoned just about every club within the county (and a few that weren't) and settled on one... the ONLY one that had a range longer than 40m and that didn't give me a flat NO to using .17HMR. He didn't give me a YES either though. He told me that no one has ever asked before and that he will put it to the committee... Anyway: I went there yesterday with my spring gun to check the club out and it's a very nice place. Friendly people with a 25yard range and a 100 yard range. Fairly professional set up. The man I talked to on the phone wasn't there but I asked the effective 'man in charge' if anything had been said about .17HMR and he said that it'd been discussed ages ago and that several members bought .17s but everyone had sold them now because the club couldn't get approval for it without adding a significant amount to their backstop. So the guy I talked to on the phone either lied to me or doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't really want to use .22LR like they were mostly using because I don't think it is a big enough advantage over my shotguns and air rifle to justify the cost and hassle of getting the FAC, and I can use my air rifle in my 35yard garden perfectly well. So I'm starting to wonder if there's much point in trying to join their club. Which is a sad reality that I don't want to face because it's the only club with a long range that is within realistic travelling distance Do you think the guy I talked to KNEW that I'd never get to use a .17HMR there and was just trying to hook me in to the club before I realised? Is this a wind up and a waste of my time? What do you think? Edited May 12, 2008 by harpo_the_bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Dunno, the world is full of time wasters, but by the same token you only lost a day talking to like minded people and sniffing round a new rifle range. Not a massive burden. If you coughed up for an annual subscription to the club then that maybe that's a different matter. However, what I do know having looked into this before, is that the only rifle clubs round me for about a 2 hour car drive radius cater for air and .22LR only. If you want to shoot anything over and above that (.17 HMR and .223 upwards) then you are looking at either Bisley (nightmare drive round the M25 for me and a whole day out) or a military range that you may or may not get access to. Damn shame really and a great inconvenience. My current plan is to make a DIY bench rest table and shooting seat (waiting on Bob300W for photos, measurements and the blue prints of his ) and then set this up in a safe and peaceful corner of my permission. My permission is local to me but it is also very flat and has a few foot paths running through it - so nothing is ever ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Dunno, the world is full of time wasters, but by the same token you only lost a day talking to like minded people and sniffing round a new rifle range. Not a massive burden. If you coughed up for an annual subscription to the club then that maybe that's a different matter. However, what I do know having looked into this before, is that the only rifle clubs round me for about a 2 hour car drive radius cater for air and .22LR only. If you want to shoot anything over and above that (.17 HMR and .223 upwards) then you are looking at either Bisley (nightmare drive round the M25 for me and a whole day out) or a military range that you may or may not get access to. Damn shame really and a great inconvenience. My current plan is to make a DIY bench rest table and shooting seat (waiting on Bob300W for photos, measurements and the blue prints of his ) and then set this up in a safe and peaceful corner of my permission. My permission is local to me but it is also very flat and has a few foot paths running through it - so nothing is ever ideal. Very subtle Mung, sorry, you did ask and I totally forgot, must have been the excitement of the day. I will do that for you within the next two days, and you know very well that there is a range closer to you than two hours drive, it's just up the A12, and it's open 24/7. Due to the Health and Safety constrictions governing this type of project, could you please forward seven copies of your risk assessment and work method statements for the construction procedure, before opening time today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Andy, Herts and Essex at Gt Leighs will cater for you, they are cleared for 7.62 so your little pop guns wont be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Doesn't the HMR fall foul of these new NRA rulings due to it's potential velocity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) I doubt very much that you could get the HMR to go fast enough to exceed 4500joules. Surely it would need to go at about a trillion miles a nanosecond Edited May 12, 2008 by martincavie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 I doubt very much that you could get the HMR to go fast enough to exceed 4500joules. Surely it would need to go at about a trillion miles a nanosecond That's about the speed of a Mersea boy heading for home when it's his round, trust me, it's fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdwillis Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 in ur first post it sounds as though you want to get a .17hmr to shoot in the field. Why do you need a gun club? sorry if i have misunderstood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpo_the_bad Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hello Tjdwillis, I want both really... I enjoy hunting a lot, so far I've only had the chance to use my shotguns which I've been doing for a few years. I've always prefered rifles though and whilst my .177 is a great and accurate gun, getting within 30-35yards of anything is frustrating and obviously it's not going to do much more than angry up Mr Fox. I also really enjoy target shooting. I was a member of a field target shooting club with my air rifle for a few years, they even asked me to join their team. That all ended when my dad got in to an explosive argument with the club secretary (of all people) and almost came to blows I considered going for a .22LR but after having a go with the Gamekeeper's CZ I think I'm better off just using modified and full in my 12 gauge. So that's why I decided to go for .17HMR. It's looking like I won't be able to use it at a club though and I may or may not even have suitable land I'm working on that though! Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 <It's looking like I won't be able to use it at a club though and I may or may not even have suitable land I'm working on that though!> Not sure that I follow this thread, you are saying that clubs, including the one suggested by Martin, have clearance for 7.62, but you can't use 17 on it? You sure about your facts here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpo_the_bad Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) Hi Bob, Sorry if I'm being a bit slow... but I didn't realise that Martin was talking to me when he suggested those two clubs. He addressed that post to Andy who I assumed was Mungler? I think so anyway... I'm right out on the East Coast of Norfolk. The closest range that I have been able to find so far that will allow anything more than .22LR/shotgun/blackpowder is Thetford and that's more than a 100 mile round trip. Gt Leighs is even further and Hertfordshire is further again... If I'm wrong then please correct me! Shane Edited May 13, 2008 by harpo_the_bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Bob, Sorry if I'm being a bit slow... but I didn't realise that Martin was talking to me when he suggested those two clubs. He addressed that post to Andy who I assumed was Mungler? I think so anyway... I'm right out on the East Coast of Norfolk. The closest range that I have been able to find so far that will allow anything more than .22LR/shotgun/blackpowder is Thetford and that's more than a 100 mile round trip. Gt Leighs is even further and Hertfordshire is further again... If I'm wrong then please correct me! Shane Sorry Shane, you are out of my patch, can't help with the ranges up there, you are correct, having just re-read the posts (touch of dementia creeping in)re Martins post. I still find it puzzling that ranges approved for full-bore won't allow 17. Maybe you should visit these clubs on range days and speak to the lads shooting. I do know that not many clubs will welcome you with open arms if you do not have an FAC before you join, as many people just use clubs as a means of getting their ticket. Also you should have a word with the club secretary that your father had an argument with, after all, it was not you involved in it. (Unless you were doing grubby things to his daughter at the time?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I doubt very much that you could get the HMR to go fast enough to exceed 4500joules. Surely it would need to go at about a trillion miles a nanosecond Not the energy, the velocity perhaps it is nothing to do with the NRA . . But some ranges BSRC for one, and the one Trakker found have an upper velocity limit which super quick calibres like 17 hmr and 22.250 for example, break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I considered going for a .22LR but after having a go with the Gamekeeper's CZ I think I'm better off just using modified and full in my 12 gauge. Will this shotgun be able to take rabbits out to 100yards in complete silence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpo_the_bad Posted May 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 No it won't... and will this .22LR be able to take out 3+ RUNNING rabbits, flying corvids, pigeons whipping along at 30-40mph, kill a fox dead and without ever having to compensate for wind direction/strength or trajectory? Everything has its pros and cons... IMHO from my experience of using a .22LR they don't have enough pros to warrant the hassle of me getting an FAC granted. I'd be losing all the above mentioned advantages for a meagre increase in range and the benefit of stealth; and if I want stealth for rabbits then I can use my .177 because getting close to rabbits isn't that hard... it's just everything else like foxes and crows. However a .17HMR that will shoot fairly flat and hit hard up to 150yards on a good day and brain a fox at 80yards is a different matter. I was kind of expecting a post like this eventually and in case it isn't clear; I have no contempt for your .22LR rifles and I have a great deal of respect for those of you who reliably headshot rabbits at distances that I can't yet get to! Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I doubt very much that you could get the HMR to go fast enough to exceed 4500joules. Surely it would need to go at about a trillion miles a nanosecond Not the energy, the velocity perhaps it is nothing to do with the NRA . . But some ranges BSRC for one, and the one Trakker found have an upper velocity limit which super quick calibres like 17 hmr and 22.250 for example, break That's a very puzzling reason to bar a 17 shooter or gun , as the 17HMR muzzle velocity is around 2600fps, that's not very fast. The 223/45g is around 3200 FPS, 243/85g around 3,100 and 308/150g around 2,800 FPS. There are really no rounds in common use (22rf excepted) that are lower than the 17HMR in terms of MV. Even the old 303 lobbed a 150g bullet at 2690 FPS. I am inclined to think that there must be other reasons, i.e. 17 is not a serious target caliber? Clubs do not want youngsters with fun guns annoying the old school? We all know the types, fire one shot, debate it for 5 minutes, fire one shot etc. etc. Total rounds fired in a morning = 5. I'm curious as to what rounds were in use at the range trakker found, if 17 was too fast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpo_the_bad Posted May 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) Well... when I went to that new gunclub last sunday and I asked the effective guy in charge about .17HMR he said that he'd even been to ranges where .50BMG is allowed but .17HMR is not. I kind of just assumed he was talking out of his... elbow. I have to agree with you bob, it seems like a lot of craziness. Especially with many of the police forces touting .17HMR as the new safe calibre! I also get a strong feeling that it is the 'old school' not wanting young blood coming in with advantages that they can't compete with! I think I may have already upset a few people by coming in with my .177 spring gun, picking the smaller targets to use and still not hitting anything less than an 8 all day. Obviously I didn't boast but I didn't see anyone else with such tight groups I think I heard my gun whimper once or twice when they set off the black powder pistols though! Shane Edited May 14, 2008 by harpo_the_bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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