TRG 42 or Accuracy International AWSM

[sean c]

Hi all

 

My membership for offa's dyke rifle club starts in jan and I'm looking at getting a .338 LM but I'm torn between the 2 above guns. I have a TRG 22 already and i love it i just want peoples opinions and experience with either rifle and the pros and cons.

 

Cheers

Sean.

[Baldrick]

Having used one as a soldier and a civvy, I would go for the AI. I have used TRGs are superb, but don't have the cult following and resale value of an AI. Both rifles have their quirks (who'd marry Sportsmatch mounts with a Border barrel?), advantages and disadvantages. You need to try them concurrently.

 

I bet you a pint that once you've tried an AI, you'll be hooked.

 

Edited: just realised that you're after a .338, not a .308, in which case my original AE/AW rant goes out the window.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Baldrick

[sunshinedave]

Sean, as you know I've just joined FCSA and have the exact same dilema really but in .308 lol. TRG22 or AI AE (or indeed spend half the amount and get a T3 Tactical).

 

I think if I were you, already owning a TRG I'd get an AI, especially as I do like the military rifles and the AW in 338 if their new toy (L115A1)

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide! Either way it'll be good to see it on the range.

 

Baldrick I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on AE/AW, PM me if you want :o

 

PS. Sean, just spotted this (Item 5), for this price I think I'd have the TRG42

http://www.offasrifleclub.com/for_sale.htm

Edited December 9, 2008 by sunshinedave

[Tiff-TRG]

Hi Sean - Sorry but Item 5 from Sunshinedaves post has been residing in my cabinet for some time now - along with 1,000 lapua cases! :o

 

Having been in your situation exactly I hope I can help......

 

The AI is a very good rifle and probably just slightly more robust - if you run it over with a land rover!

 

However they do hold their value and don't come up sale below £3,000 very often. At £3,600-£3,800 new It's hardly worth getting a shot out one.

 

The TRG is readily available in several gunshops around the country S/H, due to people giving them up after the Bisley ban. As such for around £1500 or £1300 CASH you can get an almost mint example. Apart from not stabilising the 300 gainers there's no difference in accuracy between the AI and TRG.

 

Don't know if you've read this very good article:

 

http://demigodllc.com/articles/military-33...les-trg42-awsm/

 

Basically get the TRG and spend the other £1500-£2000 more a AI would cost on ammo and glass. I shot 300 rounds at the last FCSA shoot - It certainly fun to shoot (if a bit expensive!) and my TRG held the fig 11 at 1,300 ish all day long! Mr and Mr rpa on the other hand were struggling a fair bit more in the lane next to me!

 

Alternatively I can put you in touch with a very very good gunsmith who could build you a complete custom .338 for around £2000.

 

Please ask any other questions and I'll try my best to help.

 

As an side will either of you also be at the meet on F range on the 10th Jan? You wouldd be more than welcome to have a shoot with it.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Tiff-BBS

[sean c]

Tiff i will be at the sennybridge meet on the 10th i would realy like a go with your rifle if possible. Thanks for the input chaps, Having phoned my local rfd he can get me both straight away so that has not narrowed my choice. I have read that article and that still couldn't help me decide my main concern is the twist rates because i want to reach out to a mile i understand that i would need to use 300gr bullets or launch a 250gr bullet @ nearly 3k fps. Is the sako capable of getting the 250's upto that speed and how easy and expensive is a new barrel if i decied to swap.

 

Cheers,

Sean.

[jcbruno]

this new canadian rifle is turning heads with contracts for the canadian army & special force British SAS and american & australian spec ops aswell and some other european army's

 

 

check out Colt Canada we can make anything the americans make but better

[Tiff-TRG]

Hi Sean, your more than welcome to have a shoot with it.

As for the barrel and twists I really wouldn't worry about it. The 250's will get you to the mile, just with a bit more wind drift. I've shot it out to 2,000 ish and it still held 7/10 on a fig 11 in reasonable conditions! Or you could get it re-barrelled with a 30-32" pacnor for about £400-£450, all in back to your RFD. So at £1350 for a base rifle + £450 for barrel + £200 for NEAR MFG (very well made Canadian gear) = £2,000 for a effectively a brand new rifle with a better barrel than one straight from the factory, for a £1,000 less!

 

As for the Timberwolfs they are good rifles, but personally I've found their not the easiest to deal with and depending on contracts (a bit like rpa) you can be looking at a long wait.

 

Just found some real time ballistics notes from the last shoot I did at 1,700 with a mate who's got a AI .338 (both running hot loads!) all figures MOA for 10mph at 90 degrees:

 

Scenar 250 at 2950ish: 63 drop, 11.25 wind

Sirrea 300 2800ish: 64 drop, 10.25 wind

 

Not a great deal to choose between and at these distances even the slightest mistake in your trigger brake can throw you a lot more than 17".

 

Hope this helps and I'll do my best to answer any other questions you've got.

 

Cheers Tiff

Edited December 9, 2008 by Tiff-BBS

[jcbruno]

yup the wait is long and the rifles are very expensive but these rifles arent made in a factory they are all hand crafted by a master gunsmith in his shop and i am sure with all the contracts for the canadian millitary lawenforcement and allied army's and police forces this keeps him very buisey :(

[sean c]

Thanks chaps, thanks for the ballistic info tiff there is not enough to gain by using a 300grn then really apart from costing more. I think it will be a TRG 42 but after I've tried one i will decide for definite, it will also help me decide whether the lighter weight of the TRG will be a problem I'm not recoil sensitive but i do want to be able to use my shoulder and drive home.

[Fuddster]

Hi and hello,

 

AI spells trouble-it was bankrupt about 18months ago and went into receivership-'we' were left high and dry after ordering .308 barrels to replace ageing .243's.

 

considering my .308 aws came to me free and i have the added bonus of free ammo and range time-i would still happily smash the bloody thing against the nearest tree and throw the bits left in the bin.

 

it jams all the time.

bolts regularly fail to feed rounds.not just mine-others on the line are the same.

its a heavy hunk of junk to drag over ground.

 

in short-i hate the bloody thing.

 

i have shot out successfully to 600yds but have little faith in it.

 

i have recently tested trg/308,tikka t3 308/some south african rifle in 308 and for me you cant beat the mannlicher ssg police spec 308 if its a tactical type rifle you're after.

 

its a lotta cash to throw into an AI and i cant see the firm backing you if you encounter a problem ('we' have been on the receiving end of ai customer service and it sucks)

 

hey ho thats my neutral opinion of the damned thing

 

F.

[sean c]

Your not a fan then fuddster I think its going to be a TRG i just can't justify the extra £1k for a AI when i know from my own TRG that they are excellent guns.

[Fuddster]

sean

 

i see you've already got a few sako's so you recognise quality.

 

for my cash i'd go for the trg.

 

or the mannlicher-again quality.

 

all the best

 

fuddster

[sean c]

Tiff,

 

Ive just looked on the FCSA website and the 10th Jan booking as been changed to shoot on G range and it says no .50 cal i don't know if that includes .338 as well.

 

Its a booking for ODRC i don't know if that affects you or not.

 

Cheers,

Sean.

[sunshinedave]

Max cal. for G Range is 7.62 (.308)

[sean c]

Thanks mate, are you going up there?

 

Do you know what range it goes out to?

[sunshinedave]

I will be yep!

 

I've not used G Range (infact I've only used F), but I think its 350m.

 

Firing Points:

http://www.offasrifleclub.com/images/IBSR2SB1.jpg

 

Downrange:

http://www.offasrifleclub.com/images/IBSR3SB1.jpg

 

Pics from the Offa's Gallery

[Tiff-TRG]

Hi Sean, I'm afraid I'm not going now the range has changed. I can't use the .338 on G range, and with a 600yard 7.62 range 7 miles from my house, 350 yards doesn't warrant a 7 hour drive! I'll catch up with you at one shoot I'm sure - good luck with your new TRG......

[sean c]

I will be yep!

 

I've not used G Range (infact I've only used F), but I think its 350m.

 

Firing Points:

http://www.offasrifleclub.com/images/IBSR2SB1.jpg

 

Downrange:

http://www.offasrifleclub.com/images/IBSR3SB1.jpg

 

Pics from the Offa's Gallery

 

 

Oh thats G range is it, i dont think i will bother going there ive got a 300 yd range about 12 miles away. Phil, good luck with whatever you choose let me know how you get on. Tiff hopefully i should have my TRG by the time there is another shoot at senny so hopefully i can get some tips from you , i will see the 2 of you the next time there's a shoot down there.

Edited December 15, 2008 by sean c

[flims]

if you want this for range work not combat conditions, i wouldnt pour in so much money. yes true the AI is tried and proven yet it was still made to shoot the 250s just like the Sako although it has been reported that it can stabilise the 300SMK. i have tried the Sako TRG 42 at 1200yds achieving hit after hit on the human sized target in a 5mile/hour full value wind.

 

it handles well but for less money you can get a nice Lawton Action for a 338Lapua, get a 30-32" barrel with a 1 in9.3 twist with a Defensive Edge brake and a McRees Modular stock. this will be a very nice rifle, the stock is foldable and wont make it too cumbersome to lug around. with the H1000 load and a 32" barrel you can get 2820ft/s. If you are after shooting past 1200m say at 1500m then there is about 12" drift per 1 mile/ hour full value wind. this means that if you dial in for a condition say 5mile/hour full value and wind gusts by only 2mile/hour you are already 24" to one side or the other.

the 250scenar will drift 14" for every mile/hour full value wind at same distance.

 

While this might not show a significant increase in drift, it means 2" extra drift for every1mile/hour and at these distances everything seems to get abit more tricky besides estimating wind in +/-1mph down range through the spotting scope can be tricky. sometimes you underestimate wind at such distances and you also need about 5clicks (0.1mrad) on your windage for spin drift.

 

another thing, with the 300SMK the signature on impact is more at any distance, it retains more energy and kicks up a significant amount of dirt so spotting your shots at extended ranges is easier.