Shooting advice

[GJUK]

Please can someone advise me on the following:

 

Link: http://www.basc.org.uk/media/non-cert_holders.pdf

 

Sections 11(5) and 11(6) -Firearms Act 1968 allow non-Certificate holders to shoot in the following

circumstances ONLY:

a) when borrowing a gun from the occupier of private premises, on the occupier’s land and

in his/her presence.

or

when at a police approved clay shoot.

 

As a SGC holder, with a shotgun and I was to get permission on someone’s land, to shoot say pigeons. As I was not the 'occupier' (read owner?) of the private promises where I was shooting. I assume that I would not be able to let another person shoot with my gun?

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[Greenhunter]

If you read on to the bit about the term 'occupier', this could mean the person owning the shooting rights since its not been defined in law.

Therefore you could accompany someone else and they could use your gun provided you do 'own' the rights and you are over 21 if they are <15.

 

I'll stand to be corrected on this but that is my initial conclusion.

 

Check it out with BASC!

Edited December 16, 2008 by Greenhunter

[Highlander]

Agreed but you might want to read the thread about 'written permission'

 

This is (probably) the most misunderstood and/or abused piece of the legals surrounding gun ownership.

[David BASC]

A potential here to fall foul of the law!

 

Occupation in terms of the occupiers Liability Act is determined (very very simply) as a person who has the right to take part in an activity on a piece of land AND who also has the right to deny others access to that land to take part in the same activity.

 

However, some police FLD’s have different interpretation under the Firearms Act as what they consider to be an occupier. So your first port of call will be you FLD to ask them what their definition of occupier is.

 

In any case I doubt very much that if all you have is verbal permission that any police force would consider you to be the occupier of that land, I suggest in almost all cases a formal writer agreement or lease will be needed.

 

David

[POW!]

As a Landowner who has gone through this "Minefield " in the past , Its not as strait forwatd as it seems as " Interpritation" of the Agreement is subjective,

 

A quick example of a known case > I allow a chap to roost shoot a wood , fine , he asks can he come next Sat , Fine , But he brings his Son , a teenager , without letting me know .

 

The "LAD" Keen as ever . throws the gun at any thing that moves ! [ as they do] , 6 boxes of cartridge later , a local is a bit miffed and rings the police .

 

I was out on business that afternoon , The PC who handled it was Great , he asked them to stop ., reluctantly they did , he then informed me that every one who shoots must have permission from me , >>"" PREFERABLY""<< writen , verbal is still an agree ment ,

 

Cut it short , This guy no longer shoots here , and I have slimmed to just a couple now ,

 

WE now control with Airguns as it causes less agro with locals , NOISE , is I belive in the future going to be a major factor in deciding shooting policy here !!! , hence why I only take a few birds now ,

 

I know you can say " Its your land and do what you want " Wrong , Legislation is crippling !! .

 

I realy do fear for my Sport / Hobby ! . POW!

[Peter De La Mare]

<15.

 

Less than 15? Or > (more than) 15?

[Greenhunter]

Less than 15? Or > (more than) 15?

< means less than. I might be wrong but thats what < means

[cleaner4hire]

what a very thorough reply

 

good info

[POW!]

Quote .. So in short you can take a mate if you have permission to shoot and are a shotgun holder and he is not"

 

Make sure its OK to take "Your Mate" with the Landowner / occupier first , and with some prior notice ,

 

I have already posted that some farm insurances are asking for named persons who are allowed on farms and land , this blame and claim problem is costing , its easier and cheaper to say NO to shooters , ,

 

Rural England Agency with the already complicated licensing system are adding to the confusion .

 

[ By the way does aytone think this is just another stealth tax!!] , Legality and legislation are so complex now its definately easier to say NO Shooting ,

 

We definately need firm clear guide lines to understand and follow , Just a phone call or a letter from a solicitor costs now ,

 

ASBOS are NOT just for the Chavs , a whole can of worms is involved , Some PLAIN speaking would help !POW!

[Greenhunter]

This is spooky because I just happend to clarify this very thing today.

 

I was under the impression ( until 4pm today) that a person without a SGC could only borrow a gun in company of a SGC holder for mainly 2 reasons. 1) section 11 (6) Firearms act 1968 and I think ammended in 2002. That gives some clay shooting grounds permission to allow non cert holder to use a shotgun etc.

 

2) A person with a Occupier of land or his agent ( ie game keeper is how it is worded on my Metropolitan Police Firearms site under frequently asked questions) may use a shotgun. The SGC holder (Occupier) MUST be within and I quote " sight and earshot of the individual borrowing the firearm"

 

I understood the Occupier to mean just that. He owns the field, rents the field, is employed on the farm etc and I told my brother this when he asked if if he could shoot with a friend who has a SGC with permission to shoot on a farm.

 

My brothers mate then phoned BASC today who said that is INCORRECT and (as already stated earlier in replies) although Occupier is not defined in law it should be taken to extend to "include persons having any right to hunting, shooting.........ett.

Refers to sec 11 (5) firearms act

 

I phoned my Metroploitan Police FEO who said " Nope, he can't do it". I then said " well BASC said he can" He said " well I'll ring you back" I said " Okay then" I could go on and say goodbye and this is my number etc but I won't, you get the point

 

Anyway, 20 mins later he phoned back and said " I know naff all and BASC are right" ( he didn't actually say he was wrong but he was )

 

He reffered me to section 11 ( 5 ) firearms act 1968 and ammendment 2002.

 

So in short. You can take a mate if you have permission to shoot ( common sense says permission in writing) and are a SGC holder and he is not.

 

With regards to the age issue mentioned. It says " The borrower may be of ANY age but an offence may be committed under section 22(3) if a minor under the age of 15 is not supervised by a person over 21 years of age"

 

Hope that helps you.

Which is what I said

(Wow I actually got something right for a change)