Guest stiv24 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I've been to look at some springer pups today, they are 5 weeks old and look as healthy as a 5 week old pup can. The breeder is a friend and gundog trainer who I trust totally. The problem, if there is one, is that the sire of the pups is the dams pup from 3 years ago so its a mother/son mating. The breeder and his wife were totally up front about it and didn't seem at all concerned which makes me think that it must be ok. What do you think of this? Is it ok or could I be getting a genetic timebomb? Incidentally both mother and son are first class working dogs. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoCars Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 im pretty sure is a no no to do that, there was a rescure program on telly a while ago with inbred dogs, they all had cancer and tumors and a whole list of things wrong with them (blindness, inside out eyelids ect ect) because of the inbreeding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinois Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi, as a proffessional dog breeder, it is not something I would do. I don't think you will get any problems as a result of it. But in my experience a very close breeding like that is something a show breeder will do to bring out a certain physical characteristic. Don't worry about it too much though, just make sure you check the teeth etc before you take the pup. Teeth are one of the first things to go, so make sure there is a perfect scissor bite. Obvioulsy if you evr plan to breed from your dog in the future. Make sure there are no close relatives within 2-3 generations to be safe. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 It may be fine, it may not be fine. I'd steer clear to be safe. Speaking from a human perspective (I'm a medical student) incest can result in certain recessive and rare genetic conditions appearing. The additional trouble is often these are quite serious conditions, and often they lay dormant for a long while before becoming clinically apparent. These conditions are by no means guaranteed to occur with incest BUT the risk remains. I appreciate that this is regarding humans as opposed to dogs, but the principles do remain the same. We all share the same genetic material after all! Hope this helps you decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe as he is a close friend ask him why it bred this way.....im sure i have read something before ref line breeding but ask him he will give you an answer, if not planned it may of been a mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Don't worry about it too much though, just make sure you check the teeth etc before you take the pup. Teeth are one of the first things to go, so make sure there is a perfect scissor bite. Obvioulsy if you evr plan to breed from your dog in the future. Make sure there are no close relatives within 2-3 generations to be safe. The part about the scissor bite, even if it's perfect now it does'nt mean it's going to stay perfect as it's all down to genetics, and i would certainly frown on a mating of this type . Like has been said it is something the show dog world would do but not the gun dog world. And almost certainly would be a mistake mating Edited February 3, 2009 by jasons gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe as he is a close friend ask him why it bred this way.....im sure i have read something before ref line breeding but ask him he will give you an answer, if not planned it may of been a mistake What happened was................ The stud dog he was going to use for the mating didn't perform, the only other dog available was the dog his son works which was her pup. I think I may pass on this litter and hope the pups go as pets Thanks for the input so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Steer well clear, at five weeks old they are too young to tell if anything untoward is wrong with them. However, this is the Kennel Club for you, they had no inbreeding policy and this is why we see all the problems we have in dogs today with dodgy breeding like mentioned above, and in some cases sons over mothers and brothers over sisters. In the working dogs classes at Crufts it's plainly obvious that most of them would drop dead if they had to do a day's work and the breeders are continually messing about with them. The modern breeding of the Fox Terrier is a classic example, they are huge nowadays and would never get down an earth, Labradors and Retrievers are getting bigger and chunkier and the list goes on and on..... If you look at some old hunting and shooting books from the turn of the lst century up to the 50's really, many working breeds look very different to what they do today, and it's the Kennel Club and breeders who breed for the show ring and not the dog's working ability who are at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 personnally the whole litter needs to be humanely destroyed as no good will come from these pups . the person who did this should be ashamed , there are enough **** mutated dogs out there with out this sort of thing happening . if this was an accidental mating the bitch should have been injected to abort the litter, let alone some one had planned to do it is outrageous . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I've been to look at some springer pups today, they are 5 weeks old and look as healthy as a 5 week old pup can. The breeder is a friend and gundog trainer who I trust totally. The problem, if there is one, is that the sire of the pups is the dams pup from 3 years ago so its a mother/son mating. The breeder and his wife were totally up front about it and didn't seem at all concerned which makes me think that it must be ok. What do you think of this? Is it ok or could I be getting a genetic timebomb? Incidentally both mother and son are first class working dogs. Cheers **** that, wheather he is a mate or not find someone who cares about breeding dogs the proper way. Just a shame those puppies probably will come down with something. Selfishness by the breeder shame on him all he thinking about is £££££££££ not the puppies and the families that the puppies go to, hate people like that. Stay clear. df Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtreedave Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 if he realy was a responsible breeder he would either have had a suitable reserve stud dog available or just let the season pass and tried again next time .this smacks of trying to get the most litters out of the bitch in the shortest possible time.i bet he is sailing very close to the wind as regards to kennel club rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Panic Over, I've been up to see him and the sire is a dog from totally different lines. It would appear that I had the wrong end of the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Panic Over, I've been up to see him and the sire is a dog from totally different lines. It would appear that I had the wrong end of the stick. How did you get the wrong end of the stick?. If i was you i would still steer clear, as some unscrupulous breeders will docter pedigrees . The only certain way would be dna profiling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I was talking to the son who showed me his dog from the bitches first litter 3 years ago. I can't remember the exact conversation but I came away thinking he sired this litter. This guy is a well respected trainer and as it turns out I actually know the family who owned the stud dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry to say but 'Well Respected' trainers and breeders are often the one's in the past doing this sort of thing. I sincerely hope this is not the case, and is not him beginning to realise that he has done something rather wrong and has 'changed' the pedigree so it doesn't look like an in-breeding job. It wouldn't be the first time and is quite easy to get away with unless blood tests are taken from the Dam and Sire. Edited February 6, 2009 by Santlache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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