anyone want a hand with charlie?

[fieldwanderer]

o.k. intro's first:

 

I'm Richard, I'm 26 and have been shooting since I was 10. Back in 2000 - 2002 I had a couple of years shooting smallbore target rifle with the national squad which included 4 international matches. I've been vermin shooting for the past 13 years or so and the last eight or so of that is with shot guns and rifles (.22rf and now .17HMR). I live in lincoln, I have my own permission but the owner's a bit funny about guests. I'm an agency hgv driver so get quite a bit of time off and I'm insured (shooting-wise) via my membership with the n.s.r.a. (£2m public liability).

 

I'd like to have a go at foxes with my new .17 hmr, I know it's not perfect for the job but I also know it will do it. The owner of my permission doesn't want me to shoot foxes there because he has no game and sees them as helping to control the rabbits. I haven't really got any lamping gear but would be happy with late in the evening / early in the morning. Would anyone take me out to have a go at a fox or two please?

[proTOM1]

what sort of licence you got is it open ?

[starlight32]

o.k. intro's first:

 

I'm Richard, I'm 26 and have been shooting since I was 10. Back in 2000 - 2002 I had a couple of years shooting smallbore target rifle with the national squad which included 4 international matches. I've been vermin shooting for the past 13 years or so and the last eight or so of that is with shot guns and rifles (.22rf and now .17HMR). I live in lincoln, I have my own permission but the owner's a bit funny about guests. I'm an agency hgv driver so get quite a bit of time off and I'm insured (shooting-wise) via my membership with the n.s.r.a. (£2m public liability).

 

I'd like to have a go at foxes with my new .17 hmr, I know it's not perfect for the job but I also know it will do it. The owner of my permission doesn't want me to shoot foxes there because he has no game and sees them as helping to control the rabbits. I haven't really got any lamping gear but would be happy with late in the evening / early in the morning. Would anyone take me out to have a go at a fox or two please?

 

 

.17 hmr is not the tool for the job whether you think so or not.....epecially on a public forum. See if someone will take you out with a cf.

[fieldwanderer]

what sort of licence you got is it open ?

 

Unfortunately not as yet, though if it's an issue let me know. I'm sure the firearms people would be o.k. with opening it up as I've had it for nearly 10years now.

Edited April 29, 2009 by fieldwanderer

[fieldwanderer]

.17 hmr is not the tool for the job whether you think so or not.....epecially on a public forum. See if someone will take you out with a cf.

 

From what I can make out that's a matter of opinion, I'd be more than happy to have a go with a c/f if anyone were willing though.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

From what I can make out that's a matter of opinion, I'd be more than happy to have a go with a c/f if anyone were willing though.

 

Nope, it's a matter of common sense. You need to clobber a fox with as much ft lbs as you can. The last thing you want is for a fox to stagger off with a large hole in it, and be found by Joe Public. Shooting does not need this.

 

Having said that, I would be quite happy with head shooting one at anything less than 100 yards with my hmr; after that I would leave well alone - and I have seen them at 130 yards and left them for another day.

 

Don

[fieldwanderer]

You need to clobber a fox with as much ft lbs as you can. The land I can shoot at the moment isn't large enough for a c/f so the hmr IS the most ft/lbs I can manage

 

The last thing you want is for a fox to stagger off with a large hole in it, and be found by Joe Public. Shooting does not need this. Too true, see below

 

Having said that, I would be quite happy with head shooting one at anything less than 100 yards with my hmr; after that I would leave well alone - and I have seen them at 130 yards and left them for another day. did I say I'd be trying to take a fox at more than that?

 

Don

 

Not having a go mate but try not to be so quick to assume people are being irresponsible. I'm doing the best with what's available to me, the hmr is more than capable of taking a fox cleanly if the shooter uses his head (pretty much as you said).

[varmintator]

Not this one again...... hope you find your fox

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Not having a go mate but try not to be so quick to assume people are being irresponsible. I'm doing the best with what's available to me, the hmr is more than capable of taking a fox cleanly if the shooter uses his head (pretty much as you said).

 

This debate can go on and on (as it has in previous posts).

 

The learning curve with shooting foxes is a bit of a beggar. I've been out with guys who have been as cool as a cucumber, and others that have not. The latter has not been pleasurable.

 

If you shoot a fox with a cf then the amount of overkill available will normally do the job if bullet placement isn't quite exact - and sooner or later the fox will move just as you pull the trigger. No doubt there are some out there that will claim that they can shoot a running fox with a hmr with great success - we've all met them!

 

Starlight had it right - this debate on a public forum will always lead to misunderstanding and sometimes heated exchange. The hmr can be a finicky round and can be also badly affected by wind. I've read of rabbits being taken at 300 yards, and always rub my chin and ponder.....

 

You've done exactly right in asking to go out with someone with experience, but for what it's worth I would recommend that this be someone with a cf. All I am trying to do is to add my experience to the advice that other's have given.

 

Oh, and I'm taking out someone from this forum tomorrow night for their first experience with 0.22 rimmy and hmr.

 

Don

[starlight32]

From what I can make out that's a matter of opinion, I'd be more than happy to have a go with a c/f if anyone were willing though.

 

 

As I have said before on here...... too many people getting an HMR and assuming its the one for all for all manner of reasons. Right calibre right quarry in my book. I am sick of this HMR for fox lark...To put it plain and simple if you want to go after them as a purpose, put in a variation and get a larger caliber. Before you know it the people that make the rules will make you hang up your c/f's and no-one will get them. You can kill an elephant with a pencil if you put it in the right place, but could you do it consistantly?

 

Yes or No

 

Not having a dig fella but there is alot on here who know I'm talking sense, and we will see who agrees..........

Edited May 2, 2009 by starlight32

[fieldwanderer]

starlight, you and others are missing the point a little here;

 

YES I agree the hmr isn't really the tool for the job, people have done foxes in with .22rf for years and the hmr's more than twice the muzzle energy - with a little common sense there's no reason why it can't be done.

 

SAYING THAT - I'd love to have a centrefire but the land I shoot is too small and I'm not allowed foxes on it so there's no point in even applying for one until I get a bigger patch to shoot.

 

On the other hand, taking the effort to get within 80yds or so of a fox with the hmr and doing the deed must be a very sporting and satisfying way to get the job done and I'd like to give it a go.

 

I whole-heartedly agree, any c/f would be better for the job but at the moment it's out of my reach. As said above though, with common sense the smaller calliber is perfectly capable and could prove to be very satisfying.

 

And if you take my shooting history into account, I'm very confident I could consistantly place shots at under 100yds, again not a dig at anyone it's just the way I see things.

[pavman]

This debate can go on and on (as it has in previous posts).

 

The learning curve with shooting foxes is a bit of a beggar. I've been out with guys who have been as cool as a cucumber, and others that have not. The latter has not been pleasurable.

 

If you shoot a fox with a cf then the amount of overkill available will normally do the job if bullet placement isn't quite exact - and sooner or later the fox will move just as you pull the trigger. No doubt there are some out there that will claim that they can shoot a running fox with a hmr with great success - we've all met them!

 

Starlight had it right - this debate on a public forum will always lead to misunderstanding and sometimes heated exchange. The hmr can be a finicky round and can be also badly affected by wind. I've read of rabbits being taken at 300 yards, and always rub my chin and ponder.....

 

You've done exactly right in asking to go out with someone with experience, but for what it's worth I would recommend that this be someone with a cf. All I am trying to do is to add my experience to the advice that other's have given.

 

Oh, and I'm taking out someone from this forum tomorrow night for their first experience with 0.22 rimmy and hmr.

 

Don

 

Well put Don I agree with every word

[al4x]

fieldwanderer you'll have this attitude and missing the point pushed on you on here all the time. You won't argue it and win, with your request you're better off finding someone who will take you out foxing with a centre fire.

 

HMR's can and will kill foxes but really not the gun to go out looking for them with, I've shot quite a few with mine but very rarely set out to shoot them with it and most have been cubs which it handles very well. However I'd not take a stranger out to shoot foxes with one as the last thing i want is injured foxes on my ground and thats probably what you'll get from most people. So options are find permission of your own where you can lamp foxes or look to gain experience watching a regular

[fieldwanderer]

fieldwanderer you'll have this attitude and missing the point pushed on you on here all the time. You won't argue it and win, with your request you're better off finding someone who will take you out foxing with a centre fire.

 

HMR's can and will kill foxes but really not the gun to go out looking for them with, I've shot quite a few with mine but very rarely set out to shoot them with it and most have been cubs which it handles very well. However I'd not take a stranger out to shoot foxes with one as the last thing i want is injured foxes on my ground and thats probably what you'll get from most people. So options are find permission of your own where you can lamp foxes or look to gain experience watching a regular

 

Thanks for that mate, very true. Someone (sorry can't remember the name of the top of my head) has very kindly offered to take me out with his .243 and I'll very likely be taking him up on the offer. I wouldn't normally set out to shoot a fox with the hmr either but it's a new toy, exciting challenge etc and I'd like to give it a go, even if it were just the once.

 

New permission may be in the pipelines via a friend of my dad's though so I may have a reason to get something bigger other than for paper punching soon.

 

Thankyou very much for taking a more factual / open minded view though.

[jcf1]

Just another twopence worth

 

I personally don't shoot foxes - not my bag. They probably taste like **** and I haven't ever needed to. I quite like seeing them out and about, and so I leave alone.

 

HOWEVER, a few of the permissions I share with my buddy have fox problems, and we have been asked to thin them out in the past. My shooting buddy has shot them while I was there with the hmr. Not specifically out foxing, but happened across them sooner or later on a rabbit round.

 

All shots were sub-80 yards. The foxes went down cleanly and quickly, one shot. I've also seen many other foxes taken out with both hmr and cf humanely and quickly. The CF will often slip straight through a fox at that range, the hmr makes a more concussive injury sub-80 yds by looking at the results, hence at long ranges hmr is not at all suited.

 

If you are specifically looking to shoot foxes as a pastime then I would say get a cf. BUT there is no significant difference in humane kills below 80 yds. Shot placement is irrelevant, as this should be nothing short of certain no matter what your calibre or don't take the shot.

 

For that reason there is nothing wrong IMO with hmr for opportunistic foxing sub 80 yards if that's what you want. Takes a different skill and sport anyway to get a fox in that close.

 

All are better than ******* snares

[starlight32]

Just another twopence worth

 

I personally don't shoot foxes - not my bag. They probably taste like **** and I haven't ever needed to. I quite like seeing them out and about, and so I leave alone.

 

HOWEVER, a few of the permissions I share with my buddy have fox problems, and we have been asked to thin them out in the past. My shooting buddy has shot them while I was there with the hmr. Not specifically out foxing, but happened across them sooner or later on a rabbit round.

 

All shots were sub-80 yards. The foxes went down cleanly and quickly, one shot. I've also seen many other foxes taken out with both hmr and cf humanely and quickly. The CF will often slip straight through a fox at that range, the hmr makes a more concussive injury sub-80 yds by looking at the results, hence at long ranges hmr is not at all suited.

 

If you are specifically looking to shoot foxes as a pastime then I would say get a cf. BUT there is no significant difference in humane kills below 80 yds. Shot placement is irrelevant, as this should be nothing short of certain no matter what your calibre or don't take the shot.

 

For that reason there is nothing wrong IMO with hmr for opportunistic foxing sub 80 yards if that's what you want. Takes a different skill and sport anyway to get a fox in that close.

 

All are better than ******* snares

 

You have considered eating foxes?

 

Next one..Funny remark that.....Most foxes that I see fall with a c/f seem to have holes the size of tea plates.