Going Back problem

[n0vice]

My dog will not go back if we have not walked over the ground already.

If i chuck a dummy without her seeing (normally when sending her off on a retrieve in a different direction) I send her back but she will only go back a few metres before stopping and turning. If she does go back further it will be on a tangent to where I have asked her to go

But if I drop a dummy whilst walking, walk on anywhere between 20 - 100 metres then command her back, she will go back straight as a die until she comes accross a dummy or I stop her and redirect.

NTTF you seem to be the Guru,

Any help greatly appreciated

[WGD]

But if I drop a dummy whilst walking, walk on anywhere between 20 - 100 metres then command her back, she will go back straight as a die until she comes accross a dummy or I stop her and redirect.

 

Repetition until the "Back" command is understood is the first thing, but drop her to the sit position first and you move forward before commanding back, increasing distance between you and her. Then introduce short blinds in front but again you move back from the dog leaving it in the sit position and send it Back, away from you rather than sending the dog from your side. Increase distance all time and initially use a fence, wall or track to give the dog a guide to going straight back.

[Spaniel]

Some also say using the word "GO" sounds to much like "NO" so just say "BACK" and use a good hand signal

[n0vice]

I always sit her up, take 3 or 4 paces forwards turn so that she is directly inbetween me and where I want her to go , then with both hands palm up I do a "standing press up" motion and command back.

As I said she is fine if we have just come from the direction the dummy in in.

 

The way I started it was by sitting her facing forward, i'd toss the dummy. Then walk her at heel through 180 degrees and then sit her up again with her back to the dummy. I then take a few more steps forward, turn and face her. Then command her back.

 

That was fine. I then started chucking the dummy further and further away. all good

 

Then came some blinds. walking along a straight section of foot path ( so that she cannot deviate when running back) I would subtly drop a dummy when walking . then walk on anything between 20 - 50 m then sit her up, walk in front and send her back. Still no probs.

 

 

The problem comes if I get someone to stash a dummy or i throw a dummy out onto open ground that we have not just come from that direction ( and she does not see me do it) Could it be a lack of trust in me issue?

 

 

When I sit her up , send her back onto a true blind even if it is only a short distance away, she won't stay straight and more often than not, stops after running a few metres and looks back at me.

 

 

Please help me sort this.

[MC]

Does she know that the blind is there? Have you tried walking her back on the lead, dropping the dummy and then walking away? Then send her back to it.

 

I have found that if you do that at short distances and gradually build the distances up using the same command as you would for a blind. The dog must always find the dummy otherwise she will start to think you are sending her out for nothing.

 

I have done this and I could send my springer across a field, I also keep repeating the "get out" command over and over. By doing this I can drive him as far as I want and finish with "lost" and he will start looking.

[Spaniel]

Sounds to me you are doing an excellent job with the training, not sure how old your dog is but i have the same prob with my youngest springer, and im not really concerned about it as it is just about getting her to be confident with me sending her out on a blind....just shorten the distances you send her and build on it from there, im sure it will be fine

[darren m]

I always sit her up, take 3 or 4 paces forwards turn so that she is directly inbetween me and where I want her to go , then with both hands palm up I do a "standing press up" motion and command back.

As I said she is fine if we have just come from the direction the dummy in in.

 

The way I started it was by sitting her facing forward, i'd toss the dummy. Then walk her at heel through 180 degrees and then sit her up again with her back to the dummy. I then take a few more steps forward, turn and face her. Then command her back.

 

That was fine. I then started chucking the dummy further and further away. all good

 

Then came some blinds. walking along a straight section of foot path ( so that she cannot deviate when running back) I would subtly drop a dummy when walking . then walk on anything between 20 - 50 m then sit her up, walk in front and send her back. Still no probs.

 

 

The problem comes if I get someone to stash a dummy or i throw a dummy out onto open ground that we have not just come from that direction ( and she does not see me do it) Could it be a lack of trust in me issue?

 

 

When I sit her up , send her back onto a true blind even if it is only a short distance away, she won't stay straight and more often than not, stops after running a few metres and looks back at me.

 

 

Please help me sort this.

 

 

your not alone mate , mine does the exact same thing , and i,m doing the exact same as you .

i put it down to trust and confidence she needs to know 100% that theres going to be something there to find .

i,m not sure what the next step is to be honest , so i,m reading your replies hoping to get some help as well :unsure:

[blahblahblah]

What has helped with me is that I throw a dummy let him see, sent him out and tell him back back ect until he has it (practice loads). I then use ground that has dead spots in it (so he cant see where it lands) and throw the dummy into those so he knows the direction but not the distance. if you ve done the first part enough then he ll progress on.

[darren m]

i understand the thinking , but she will only get back if she knows its already there , i always use "go fetch " or " maize fetch " when sending her out for a straight retrieve.

and get back for longer or seen unseen ( she,ll only go for the seen ) , if i used "get back" for all retrieve work . would that help build up her confidence??.

[MC]

If she will only go back on a seen retreive then she doesn't trust you.

 

You need to start with some "Seen blinds" and always use the same command. I always use "get out" starting with "fetch it, get out" and then repeating "out.......out.......out" until he has gone the correct distance and then call "Lost"

 

I always use "Fetch it" whether a seen or blind so my dog knows what he has to do.

 

Your dog must always find what you have put down, if she doesn't she will start thinking that you have sent her for nothing and remember that. It doesn't matter about the distance at the moment, just get her retreiving seen blinds from about 10 yards and gradually build the distance up.

[WGD]

I agree with MC about the confidence, the dog must find when sent for a retrieve.

 

I only use "Back" if there is distance between me and the dog so it knows to go further from you, I use "Away" which is my command for retrieve if I am sending the dog from my side.

 

You can condition this by sending the dog for a seen or a memory retrieve from your side, stopping it half way and commanding "Back" to get further out. Do PLENTY of this before trying on a blind so the dog associates the command with the appropriate action.

 

A dog will not go straight out unless it has been conditioned to do so, achieve this using a retrieving lane of some sort, a track, a path or a wall for guidance so the dog is less likely to deviate from the direction required before moving onto open ground. Repetion, conditioning and build the dog's confidence in you and it will come.

 

Make the lessons VERY easy to start with and build on it, it will take time and patience.

[darren m]

MC and wgd - thanks lads i understand blinds are the same as a unseen get back

 

whats shes doing is this - retrieving seen dummies and memories are ok , its just on blinds she,ll take off and turn to me about only 10 yards out as if to say " what the heck have you sent me for " thats when i try and use the get back and hand signal , but shes not quite got it yet.

 

i will continue with the retrieves making them hidden but a lot shorter in distance and will keep say the "get back " until she finds the dummy

 

cheers

[dusk2dawn]

The "go back" is one of the most difficult exercises to master and alot of the aforesaid comments are useful, there is no need to make things complicated with double hand signals, remember sometimes you will have a gun under your arm or be carrying game already retrieved, so one arm raised with the flat of the palm pushing towards the direction back over the dogs head, at the same time giving the single command "Back" just once, so many handlers who display a lack of confidence repeat the command several times in a few seconds, the dog heard the command the first time!

 

I would go back to basics and retrain the dog, choose a site offering no distractions with a long fence to work against, start by walking with the dog at heel between you and the fence (you can do two exercises at once here) make sure it walks to heel.

 

After say 20yds walking to heel, sit the dog, and walk on just a few yards, wait a second or two and throw a dummy just over its head to land 10yards behind, wait a minute then raise your arm up straight in the air, blow the stop/sit signal (even though the dog is already sitting) this commands its attention then with the palm of the hand use a pushing motion together with the term "Back".

 

The dog will retrace its path along the fence (in a straight line) to retreive the dummy. Encourage it to return along the fence to you, only praising it after it has sat and delivered the dummy, if you begin praising it beforehand you are storing up trouble later in the form of spitting the dummy out to get the praise faster.

 

Unseen retrieves are staged by walking the dog along the fence and quietly dropping the dummy behing you without the dog seeing this and sending it back as before, this will build up the dogs confidence in you when it finds the dummy.

 

Should for any reason the dog fail, just sit the dog and walk back and pick the dummy yourself, ignore the dog completely, walk back collect the dog and resume walking along the fence and try again.

 

Gradually lengthen the distance the dog goes back, but always train against a fence in the eary stages.

 

It is very important to keep training sessions short, and finish everytime on a high note. Short and sweet everytime.

 

All the best and hope this is of use D2D.

Edited July 24, 2009 by dusk2dawn

[provider]

Hi all

 

I personally would start back a step with the dog sitting say 5 metres away and put the dummy over its head, let it sit for a few seconds with its attention on you then give it the get back or back , which ever you prefer to use,with a clear raised hand signal, then keep doing this until the dog is going back fluently every time.

 

After that throw the dummy back over the dog then call it up to you and drop to sit beside you,then step back a few paces and repeat the get back command as before.Do this untill its going back everytime. By calling up the dog you are actually breaking the direct mark it had when you threw the dummy over the dogs head.

 

After this when the dog will go back every time you can then drop a dummy as you walk without it being seen, walk a short distance say 3 metres then send the dog back.If the dog won't go back that far then you will need to shorten the distance until he finds it and eventually you can extend the distance and hopefully the penny will have dropped that when you tell the dog to go back there is something to be found.

 

If the dog goes back and doesn't pick the dummy walk it closer and make sure the dog gets the find as this will prove to the dog that you were right and there was something there afterall. REMEMBER the dog must be successfull finding the dummy everytime during this excersise so it will believe you and not start to think for itself.

 

Hope this helps. One step at a time and you will get there.

 

Prov

[fallarben]

take her right back to basics no to a corner of a field or a fenced footpath as u walk out drop a dummy walk on a short way try no drop it so the dog does not see it but can easily see it then send her from heel when she does this with no problems move ondo not make the same mistake alot of people make and think she has done it twice shes ready to move on she needs to do it everytime perfect before shes ready to move on as she gets better lengthen the distance between retrieves once the dog trusts u it will go were u send it