f_mather Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hi - I'm just new to the forum and I would like some help with reloading my .243. Basically I am curently reloading 100grn Hornady Boat Tail Spire Point with 38.5grn of vit n160. When I have looked at vit's web page they suggest a much higher load. I was just wondering if anyone has other books such as speer, nosler and hornady etc and what their suggested max and min loads are for 100grn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 vihtavuori says for 100 grain hornady; start is 40.8 max is 45.3 with n160 my nosler dosent list a vit powder under a hundred grain bullet hornady says with vit n165 47.2 as a max using their hornady 100 grainer can i recomend though the load i use, 87 grain hornady with n-160 and about 43.6 grains of it, gives about 3100 this is the load that my father worked from to get our current 243 round, i believe we are running slightly over this now, and putting out about 3170fps its very good on foxes, but not deer legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_mather Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 thanks for the quick response dunganick, I reloading about 100 before I moved house and I am starting to run out. I am sure I was using the load from the speer book for 100grn. I only use one bullet for everything for the reason about roe, it also works for me on foxes. Does anyone have the speer book to check as I pulled a bullet to double check my load and it is 38.5 which seems low and a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riothedog Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Howdy do! I've got a Speer book and a Hornady but they are both at home and I am currently driving the desk around Hitchin. Must get out of this office... Let me get home and I'll post the data. One thing though, when I had a .243, I went for the softest load in the book. I read up on interior ballistics - concerns over flash overs, air gaps - all that kind of stuff and unless you are target shooting out to 600m then it sorta gets in the way. More important for me was to reduce the bullet jump. As the bullet leaves the case and hits the lands of the barrel. Mine were something like 3/000's off. Just got rod of a load of .243 stuff as well! I'll get back to you tonight. RTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 My Speer book only lists n160 for 100grain Spitzers and Grand Slams. The heaviest Boat Tail that lists n160 is 85grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_mather Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 cheers browning - what is the suggested minimum and max load for the 100grn's with n160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) its very good on foxes, but not deer legal ????? Has the law changed for England and Wales? I would have thought that the burning rate of N160 was possibly a bit slow for the .243. How long is your barrel? Edited June 22, 2005 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 i was under the impression that to be deer legal it had to be 100 grains which 87 isnt i may be wrong, i recal a conversation at my club which resulted in the law actually only stipulating a minimum energy, but i dont believe the 87 grainer would meet this either please inform me if im wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) Rj / Nick, It has got to be one of the most mis-quoted bits of law about. At 3,170fps and 87g then 1940ft/lbs looks to be well within the 1,700ft/lb limit. If you got 2,970fps you would just be ok. Of couse that does not mean the 87g bullet is the best one, but legal YES. (in E&W). Cheers AndyCM Edited June 22, 2005 by AndyCM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 okay, i stand corrected, even so with 87 grains i would certianly think twice before taking any deer with it. thanks for that andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) I think the 100grn minimum applies in Scotland. http://www.deer-uk.com/r_for_rifle.htm The law used to say min 6mm 'OR' 1700ft.lb muzzle energy I believe. Perhaps it now says min 6mm 'AND' 1700ft.lb muzzle energy. People with fast 22/250 loads used to argue that they were legal for deer south of the border. Edited June 22, 2005 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 how do they manage that, 22-250 is 224 sized bullet, so its not 6mm or .240 so despite applying to the energy requirements they arnt a legal callibre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Read my lips! 'OR' not 'AND' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 ah point taken, i didnt think the wording of the law had ever been that though hmmmm maybe a topic for another less warm day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riothedog Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 From the Speer Book I would only use a .243 100grain spitzer soft point as the bullet weight below that doesn't seem to be legal and the heavier, which is only 105grain, doesn't have a boattail. So go for the Speer part no. 1220. BTSP. I've shot these and they were pretty good in my .243. Ballistic coefficient is 0.430 and the cartridge overall length is 2.635 ". Good old yanks I'll do it Powder / Min load / velocity / Max load / velocity H450 / 39g / 2515 / 42.0g / 2766 IMR 4831 / 36.0g / 2513 / 40.0g / 2743 IMR 4320 / 31.0g / 2504 / 35.0g / 2723 RE19 / 35.0g / 2493 / 39.0g / 2718 H380 / 33.0g / 2424 / 37.0g / 2717 IMR 7828 / 38.0g / 2424 / 42.0g / 2715 AA 3100 / 37.0g / 2458 / 41.0g / 2707 IMR 4064 / 29.0g / 2508 / 33.0g / 2706 IMR 4350 / 34.0g / 2469 / 38.0g / 2698 AA2700 / 31.0g / 2288 / 35.0g / 2524 760 / 29.0g / 2279 / 33.0g / 2503 H414 / 29.0g / 2270 / 33.0g / 2450 Don't need to tell you not to exceed the maximum load, do I? Start off at the lowest and make a batch of say, 10. then make another batch 0.5g heavier and then another batch another weight up. take them down to the range and try them out. Whichever one gives the best group is the one you use. Eggs, sucking and Grandma spring to mind. Out of the hornady book, they use a Winchester model 70 with a 24" barrel. As if that matters. Max C.O.L. is 2.710 which is up a smidgen on the Speer manual. do you really need the velocity? If you do, let me know. I'll put in powder / Min load / Max Load IMR 4064 / 29.4 / 32.6 Win 760 / 33.4 / 39.0 H4350 / 33.9 / 39.1 IMR 4831 / 35.0 / 41.0 RL-19 / 36.5 / 42.5 H 450 / 36.0 / 43.5 RL-22 / 36.6 / 43.6 H4831 / 36.7 / 43.9 AA 3100 / 37.5 / 42.3 VIHT N-165 / 37.6 / 45.3 IMR 7828 / 38.2 / 43.3 Win WMR / 40.8 / 46.5 That's for 100 grain bullets. The one to use is part number 2453 with a B.C. of 0.40 and a C.O.L. of 2.630". Good round that - shot those as well. Devastating. There are 2 others in .243 @ 100g but one is round nose which is not as accurate and the other is a soft point without the boattail. For the same money, go for BTSP. The only issue with a .243 is that at these weights you are at the end of the envelope. Good shooting! To be of service. RTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I think you might be reading it wrong! This is what the Deer Act says is PROHIBITED (from the DEFRA web site) SCHEDULE 2 Section 4. Prohibited firearms and ammunition Firearms 1. Any smooth-bore gun. 2. Any rifle having a calibre of less than .240 inches or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305 joules (1,700 foot pounds). 3. Any air gun, air rifle or air pistol. Ammunition 4. Any cartridge for use in a smooth-bore gun. 5. Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet. So - to be legal the rifle must be NEITHER less than .240 , nor have a muzzle energgy less than 1,700 foot pounds. So .22/250 is out of the question. Badsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 any smooth bore gun thats not entirely correct, im in the midst of taking my dsc1 and it deffenatly says in there that with the correct shot size you can take deer that are damaging crops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 ah point taken, i didnt think the wording of the law had ever been that though hmmmm maybe a topic for another less warm day It's been debated at great length in the past, but that was before you were born. Ask dad, unless it was even before he started to take an interest in shooting. Once, the calibre was .240", before they changed it to metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_mather Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) From the Speer Book I would only use a .243 100grain spitzer soft point as the bullet weight below that doesn't seem to be legal and the heavier, which is only 105grain, doesn't have a boattail. So go for the Speer part no. 1220. BTSP. I've shot these and they were pretty good in my .243. Ballistic coefficient is 0.430 and the cartridge overall length is 2.635 ". Good old yanks I'll do it Powder / Min load / velocity / Max load / velocity H450 / 39g / 2515 / 42.0g / 2766 IMR 4831 / 36.0g / 2513 / 40.0g / 2743 IMR 4320 / 31.0g / 2504 / 35.0g / 2723 RE19 / 35.0g / 2493 / 39.0g / 2718 H380 / 33.0g / 2424 / 37.0g / 2717 IMR 7828 / 38.0g / 2424 / 42.0g / 2715 AA 3100 / 37.0g / 2458 / 41.0g / 2707 IMR 4064 / 29.0g / 2508 / 33.0g / 2706 IMR 4350 / 34.0g / 2469 / 38.0g / 2698 AA2700 / 31.0g / 2288 / 35.0g / 2524 760 / 29.0g / 2279 / 33.0g / 2503 H414 / 29.0g / 2270 / 33.0g / 2450 Don't need to tell you not to exceed the maximum load, do I? Start off at the lowest and make a batch of say, 10. then make another batch 0.5g heavier and then another batch another weight up. take them down to the range and try them out. Whichever one gives the best group is the one you use. Eggs, sucking and Grandma spring to mind. Out of the hornady book, they use a Winchester model 70 with a 24" barrel. As if that matters. Max C.O.L. is 2.710 which is up a smidgen on the Speer manual. do you really need the velocity? If you do, let me know. I'll put in powder / Min load / Max Load IMR 4064 / 29.4 / 32.6 Win 760 / 33.4 / 39.0 H4350 / 33.9 / 39.1 IMR 4831 / 35.0 / 41.0 RL-19 / 36.5 / 42.5 H 450 / 36.0 / 43.5 RL-22 / 36.6 / 43.6 H4831 / 36.7 / 43.9 AA 3100 / 37.5 / 42.3 VIHT N-165 / 37.6 / 45.3 IMR 7828 / 38.2 / 43.3 Win WMR / 40.8 / 46.5 That's for 100 grain bullets. The one to use is part number 2453 with a B.C. of 0.40 and a C.O.L. of 2.630". Good round that - shot those as well. Devastating. There are 2 others in .243 @ 100g but one is round nose which is not as accurate and the other is a soft point without the boattail. For the same money, go for BTSP. The only issue with a .243 is that at these weights you are at the end of the envelope. Good shooting! To be of service. RTD Thanks for your time riothedog, Does it quote n160 for the other 100grn bullets in the hornady book? If you look below who do I believe for n165 (if I was to change powders) Powder type/bullet weight/min load/max load Vit n165/100/44/49.2 Horn n165/100/37.6/45.3 The Vit minimum load is nearly the max Horn load. Edited June 23, 2005 by f_mather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) Seems like the proposed change from .240 to 6mm did not take place. The details of the 1963 Deer Act don't seem to be available. I think that one also made the taking of deer, an activity that needed one to have a Game License, but it's a long time to remember things that did not affect you at the time. Badsworth is quoting the 1991 act. From Bridport, where they leave doors open eh? Edited June 23, 2005 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) "From Bridport, where they leave doors open eh? " We do if we've got a 12 bore! Edited June 23, 2005 by badsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirky Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 Looking at the viht book it gives hornady 100gr SPBT using n160 at, starting load, 40.8 / 2615 fps max load, 45.3 / 2903 fps Hope this helps. Test barrel 23", with a 1 in 10 twist and using viht no 68 primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riothedog Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 That's all the info that I've got. I would say, buy a powder and use it. Medium powder with a full case on a low velocity. There is no deader than dead. RTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirky Posted June 26, 2005 Report Share Posted June 26, 2005 It seams that hodgdons varget can be used on any bullet weight from a 55gr nosler bt, upto a 107gr sierra bthp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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