shootingmike

I'm after some 3 inch cartridge cases for loading steel shot. Even once fired would be OK but I cant justify spending £37 on 250 ready primed cheddites from clay & game. Any ideas where I can get some without ordering from the states?

I'll try and keep this simple as it can get very confusing! If you only want to shoot 2 and 3/4 inch steel cartridges then they can be used in any gun that bears standard nitro proof and has the right length chambers. If you want to shoot 3 inch steel for widlfowling then your gun MUST bear the fleur de lys symbol (if your not sure what that looks like, google it!) or be stamped with words along the lines of "superior steel shot proof" "steel shot" or something like that. As I say, that's it in it's simple form. It's because all 3 inch steel in this country is classes as high performance steel and requires specific steel proof testing due to the higher pressures.

I think the beretta is a bit of a clumsy lump and seems a bit awkward and off balance. Can't knock the reliability though. A friend has the SBE2 and loves it, I've shot it and it comes up lovely with only marginally more recoil felt with 3.5 inch fast steel homeloads ! He did have an initial problem with it not cycling the third cartridge so he took it back. Examination discovered that on import the magazine tube had been crimped in the wrong place. Now it's sorted it doesn't miss a beat. As has already been suggested, the M2 looks exactly the same but is more versatile as it's 3 inch. Also, the new M2's have the same "comfortech" stock as the SBE 2 which effectively has the stock seperated in 2 by rubber strips to reduce the recoil further.

I ended up buying an Escort, black synthetic, 26 inch barrel. £280 brand new with 5 chokes and warranty. I bought it solely for Wildfowling as I can shoot heavy loads of steel or bismuth etc. through it. Also, when it inevitably gets mudded up and rained on heavily (which it has), I can strip it down in no time and clean the stock and forend with a green sponge scourer! So far it's been faultless and I've had geese and duck with it. A few weeks ago whilst out fowling in the worst rain I've ever been outdoors in, a lad I know who shoots the same marsh was coming round to my way of thinking after getting about three inches of rain all over his Benelli super black eagle 2 valued at about £1000!!!! Didn't bother me in the slightest with my £280 quid "cheap **** gun"! For the poeple on here singing the praises of old berettas etc. go ahead and whack some super fast steel through them. After you've finished admiring the bulge in your barrel and have spat your fillings out, we'll still be shooting. I agree that old berettas can't be bettered for general shooting with lead and that they cycle faultlessley. They have a great and well deserved reputation, but with modern non toxic ammunition they are not safe to use.

I think the escort is going to be my favoured option for a number of reasons. Has anyone bought one recently as I believe the NEW ones have a special adjustable butt pad with extra panels you can put in. I've seen some like this locally but many examples advertised as new on t'internet are the old normal stock. It actually draws the eye to it in my opinion and makes them look even more robust!

Yeah, but again, the older models such as the 303 etc. are NOT proofed for high performance steel (which is any 3 inch steel cartridge.) The new escort's and webleys are, they're stamped with the fleur de lys on the barrel. I know Beretta are good guns as is my Franchi but it's time the Italian manufacturers started steel proofing for magnum loads, especially for the prices they charge.

Looked at one of the new escort 3 inch yesterday. Nice addition is the extra vented butt pads to adjust the stock length. Also, I checked on the barrel and it's got the fleur de lys stamped on so they can take 3 inch hi performance steel. The shop owner told me he'd do me one for 280 in black synthetic or 320 in camo.

I had a 3 inch escort the other year. One place that was very cheap was a place called Dereck Lee Gunsmith's at Tumby, lincolnshire. I know that's no use in Worcestershire but it was well worth me a trip. I think I paid about 275 brand new, and he'd ordered it in for me. They were and still are wanting 375 or 395 where I live. Not seen a webley yet or heard of anyone trying one. Word of warning for both though, if it's for wildfowling and you want to shoot steel, check the barrels have "steel shot" or the fleur de lys stamped on otherwise you won't be able to shoot 3 inch steel. Unless you get the 3and a half inch. For more info check out my thread called something like WARNING TO NON TOX USERS.

Extrema's are fine, they're 3 and a half inch so can handle anything. Again, another point I put to GMK was why should I need a s and a half inch gun to shoot 3 inch steel!

Everyone please be aware. This is a serious safety issue. I've just spent a few days researching steel shot and the use of it in my gun. I have a Franchi Raptor 3 inch with reversible piston for heavy loads. I thought it quite reasonable that I could shoot 3" steel untilI bought a box of Hull Solway to discover I can't. The carts say on the box the gun must be steel proofed to 1370 bar, and have either STEEL SHOT or the Fleur-de-lys symbol stamped on the barrels. Mine doesn't. So, I contacted GMK to ask about the proof marks. They said my gun was steel proof but if it didn't have the fleur de lys on, I couldn't use the solway steel, only "standard steel" which is 2 and 3 quarter inch. The reason this is OK is because it only requires standard nitro proof. I explained that this was really decieving as they'd sold me a 3 inch gun that can't shoot 3 inch steel! So next, I spoke to the proof house. They said that the two star proof marks mean it's Italian Special Magnum proof to 1370 bar but it's only been proofed to that pressure with lead. I asked why that meant I couldn't shoot steel which requires the same gun proof pressure and the answer was vague but along the lines of "steels a lot harder so even though your gun has been tested to that pressure with lead, it hasn't with steel which at the same pressure might damage the bore" So... Don't assume that your 3 inch guns will shoot 3 inch steel. All 3 inch steel is classed as high performance, not standard steel. Unless you gun says steel shot or has the fleur de lys symbol stamped on the barrels, it isn't proofed for 3 inch steel at 1370 bar. Many people have said to me that the gun will be fine and those pressures written on boxes are there for legal reasons as maximum pressures. They suggest that in reality, guns are proofed at much higher pressures than they are stamped at and steel loads fire at much lower pressures than they recommend. Still, is it worth the risk? BASC have been contacted and are trying to bring some order to the whole proofing scenario. We have bar, KG's, Pascals, tons per square inch... to try and convert and make sense of. In America, they buy guns, don't proof them and blast away with heavy fast steel all day without a care in the world. Here, we import Italian guns whose proof marks mean nothing to us, the importers don't have a clue either without having to do days of research and then they sell them to us in the blind belief we can put anything up the spout. Somebody is going to get hurt unless things are standardised.. Go and check your guns, you might be in for a surprise.

Thank you graham, Looks like it bismuth 3" 42 bb's and the remington sportsman steel 3" for me then!

Further update and important for raptor owners. Although it's steel proofed, they've told me the rating of the gun is 1176 bar. The solway steel I've bought say 1370 bar on the box, so I won't shoot them. Therefore, despite being a "steel shot proofed" 3 inch gun, you can't shoot 3 inch steel it appears. Disgusting. Interestingly, the remington nitro steel 3" that the father in law just bought actually say "Max 1050 bar" on the cases so they must be ok. How come they are so light on pressure compared to hull, express etc that all seem to say 1370 bar? What I'm now trying to find out is the bar rating of Bismuth 3" 42 BB's. They say 4 tons per square inch, or 100kg. What's that in bar?

Spoke to GMK this morning. It IS steel proofed. That solves that then!

Bloody good point! I forgot about that, it says steel on the chokes doesn't it. Still, I'd like to see proof of it on the barrels! I'll update once I've spoke with GMK

I think that's the next place to try. I'll ring them in the morning. I know it seems daft but I'm just assuming it's steel proof as it's 3" chambers with a reversible piston for "heavy" loads up to 56gram. As already stated, there are loads of markings, stars, PSF, numbers etc. but nothing obvious.

Mine has the PSF on it and two stars, but acording to that link it still doesn't say anything about steel?

Yeah, I found that yesterday but it's a bit of a generalisation isn't it. I want to be 100% sure before I have any confidence!

I have a lovely Franchi Raptor 712 3". I bought some steel cartridges yesterday and it says on the box how my gun should have the fleur de lys stamped on it to show it's steel proofed. I have stripped my gun down and there are all sorts of stars, circles, numbers etc. but no fleur. Is it just because the marks are Italian or what? Of course, one would expect a 3inch magnum semi auto made by a beretta company to be steel proofed but who knows? I've tried a google search on Italian proof marks but all I can ascertain is that PSF (which is one of he things one the barrel) means it's proofed for nitro powder.

Father in law is after a 26 inch barrel for his Beretta silver pigeon (I think it's a 687 as it's only a year or so old). Any ideas where we could get one from. I've heard mixed reports about trying to order new barrels from GMK. (12 month plus delivery time)

After getting fed up with carrying heavy washing line props, I went to a Sunday market and bought four fishing rod rests. They're alluminium, have a spike on the end and when extended are about four feet high which is plenty when sat down. Strong, light and I paid about 2.50 each for them (they're more in fishing shops buts still only a fiver each i think)

I have a Raptor and it's the puppies privates. cycles down to 24'sno problem but then turn the piston round and it's happy with 46 magnums too. Easy to clean, three chokes, abs case, warranty. I dare say a good deal cheaper than benelli's too!

I took my dogs for a walk the other day on some permission I have and took the gun as quite often a pigeon or two appear from over the wooded area that runs alongside the land. If I'm quick (and lucky!) I get the odd woodie. The land in question was wheat last year and has been ploughed quite deep for some time, since October I think. So I was quite surprised to see a lot of woodies knocking about when I first arrived. I'm not sure what's planted at the other side of the wooded area as there's a canal in between but I think it's rape. As I started walking on the land, a good 40 woodies lifted from off the plough! What on earth were they doing? They circled round a bit, split up a bit, came back in batches although nothing landed again as me and my trusty spaniel and labrapig were walking all over the place. Were they just resting from nearby rape? Have they got a new diet of mud? As I walked back off the land there were 10 or so in a sitty tree.

I couldn't justify the cost of these things. After a couple of years lugging washing line props about I've stumbled accross some fishing bank sticks at a sunday market. they've got a great spike on the bottom (Some even had a spiral thread) they're lightweight aluminium and extend to about 5 feet. Not tried them in hard ground yet but the spikes are pretty solid so I don't expect problems Used them wildfowling the other day and they held my fairly heavy net a treat - £2.75 each!!!! Think they're a fiver or so in the shops.

Recently bought one (712), couldn't be happier with it. Since starting shooting 4 years ago, I've never really been any good until buying this gun. I just seem to shoot things with it! I must just get on with it better than previous o/u's I've had but I'm really impressed. If you shop around you can get them for under 600 quid, mine was 575 with a trade in deal! I've only used it a few times since buying it but am extremely happy. Some say the trigger pull is hard, some say the fore end is too long but I love it and shoot well with it. Any questions, please ask and i'll do my best to answer them.

May I recomend a Franchi 712 Raptor? 3 inch mag, reversible piston for light / heavy loads, weather coated wood making it look awesome, fast smooth cycling, nice looking nickel reciever, 3 chokes, key, spray oil, hard case, made by Beretta anyway........ If you shop round like I did, you'll get one for 575 brand new. I'm very impressed with it so far, I'm shooting a lot better than I was before with a Miroku o/u.