1066
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Posts posted by 1066
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Here's a set that just might do at a pinch - £17,891 (probably some VAT to go on there too)
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This is why I do it myself friend. Move on.
+1
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i'm not bothered by a lead ban, i'm using steel only in my shotguns and cooper bullets in my rifle (Barnes TSX) and funny thing is, are net superior to any lead core bullets i ever come across... so bring it on
I really hope that's tongue in cheek. I've been shooting for 50 odd years, from the days when you could pop into the post office and get your shotgun certificate over the counter for 7/6 (35P) and walk into the Ironmongers next door and buy your shotgun.
When the semi-auto rifles and multi-shot shotguns went there was very little fight shown by the associations or many individual shooter, it only concerned relatively few people on the edges so why bother.
Banning hunting with bows of any description slipped through without even causing a ripple, banning full bore pistols didn't really have the support of mainstream rifle shooters and very little support from associations such as the NRA, the attitude being, why worry, it won't ever effect target rifle shooting at Bisley, and besides, who actually needs a pistol.
Small bore pistol shooting went the same way - Now we see the situation in Scotland where, even if you already have a SGC and an FAC you will still need a licence for your sub 12ft lb airgun and need to prove good reason. Plinking in the garden will not be "good reason".
Do you think banning lead bullets will be the end of it? Not at all, just one more petty regulation to comply with, loosing a few more shooters on the edges, those who shoot gallery lever action rifles will find lead bullets difficult to buy, some EU directive will dictate that lead can only be cast in an approved environment etc. etc.
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Can anyone reccomend some reloading scales accurate to 0.002 grain. (2 thousandths)/ 0.0001 gram (1 thousandths).
Cheers
Why do you need scales of that accuracy? I like my scales but that sort of accuracy isn't necessary (or even desirable) for reloading. For good consistent long range accuracy, and I'm talking Open F-Class with a 5 inch "V" bull at 1,000yds type accuracy, many shooters will argue that 1/10th of a grain is good enough.
The RCBS Chargemaster, and other of it's type, typically weigh to a tenth of a grain and any good beam scale will do the same. If you want better accuracy than that, and I can quite understand if you do, there's no point in looking for better accuracy than a single kernel of powder.
There are about 4.7 - 5 kernels of Varget powder to 1/10th of a grain ie. 50 kernels to a grain, therefore a scale with better resolution than .02 grain will mean you would have to cut single kernels to read the desired weight.
This is a video of a set of my beam scales reading to a single kernel of Varget powder.:
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Well I've never seen that before, what a great simple idea. Of course, several years ago it was quite legal to shoot a rabbit with a crossbow, now you'd be banged up if you even shot a rat with one. These tiny little chips at the edge of our sport all add up, death by a thousand cuts.
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Certainly a fun gun, but accuracy does seen to be a problem with these rifles. After a good trawl round the forums, 3 moa looks to be about the norm, and to my mind that's really not good enough.
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What ever you buy just make sure it will focus down to 25 yards, not all of them will.
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Well I don't think it will do any harm directly. Using good snap-caps would be the way to go. Without anything to cushion the firing pin it does come to a jarring stop, and whilst dry firing now and a gain, for example before putting your shotgun away in the cabinet, is not a problem, practicing for half an hour a day might cause problems.
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Thank you Colin - I've shot a good few "possibles" on the NSRA prone rifle cards and I've cleaned the 300 point centrefire duelling target several times, but that card is the only time I've shot (or seen) a possible on the NSRA slow fire target. Sad to think I'll never have the chance to try again. :(
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Lol think you need some more practice or better ammo
Colin
Shot with a pistol with one hand and iron sights at 25 yards (5" barrel) - I wish I could've done this every time.
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What I'm saying Dekers, it's not really the length of barrel that denotes accuracy (within reason). A .22lr with a good six inch barrel is capable of excellent accuracy, given a shoulder stock and a scope at 50 yards I don't think there would be much in it. Every inch below 14-16 inches you will loose energy, this is where the problem lays. Rimfire ammunition isn't really very accurate, even top notch match ammunition can't compete with a reasonable centrefire rifle at any range. If you are launching a .22 bullet at only 8-900 fps to start with through a short barrel, you're ok at 50 yards but struggling at 100yds because any variability in the ammunition is greatly magnified
The free pistol match is shot at 50 metres, one handed with basic iron sights. These pistols are all capable of keeping them in the 10 ring at that distance.
This is a test target shot at 50 metres with a 7 inch barrel on a fairly run of the mill target pistol.
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:hmm: ........ they tend to be nowhere near as accurate and carry less energy than the equivalent rifle rounds.
Can't really agree with that Dekers. The short barrel, as used on a pistol is, in general very accurate. The short sight base and holding the $%*& thing still is the problem. Back in the day I did a fair amount of ammunition testing with pistols and a Ransom rest - some of the groups were stunning and would put many .22 rifles to shame at 25 yards.
Most .22LR pistols have a 1in12 to 1in16 twist rate so only doing about 1/3 turn in a pistol barrel - You will start to loose velocity below 14" however.
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I believe a home Office approved rifle/pistol club must have a minimum of 10 members.
Shooting BP pistols is great fun. If you think you might progress with it and start thinking about shooting in competitions, a revolver with adjustable sights will bar you from many competitions, you will often need to compete in an open class. Still good fun but you will be up against specialist, small calibre, single shot pistols designed for the job, may be under hammers and set triggers etc.
BP revolvers can be just accurate as any modern pistol but shooting and pistol well with one hand takes a lot of practice.
I have a Remington .44 1858 with adjustable sights and a .36 LePage duelling pistol with set trigger.
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I also had a look at the axis when I was looking for a cheap 223 rifle.i compared it side by side with the howa in the same price range and picked the howa,just felt more solid than the axis..just about to buy another howa.well worth a look in that price range.
Just a thought about a new Howa - I see they have just introduced a .223 with a 1 in 9 barrel. Excellent value at less than £600.
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Excellent Paul, catching the bug already - you'll want to be making an annealer soon.
I enjoy making my kit too. -
Yes, nice group - rifles/shooters that can regularly shoot sub .5moa are rare (except on the internet
)Here's a couple of .2 moa 5 shot groups, 100 and 220 yards, the black patch is 2cm, the same size as a penny.
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I'm not saying it's a bad group - I'm saying why give up there.
If this was a pest control forum and the OP's question was "Is this group good enough to kill a fox at 100 yards or should I try and trap it or use poison bait?" The answer is unquestionably yes.
or "I'm not really interested in shooting but this is the rifle my employer says I must use, is it good enough?" Again yes.
This is the reloading section of a shooting forum - The OP has, what appears to be, a fairly accurate rifle and the ability to shoot it. He has spent money on reloading gear and components, why not start investigating how to use that gear, find out what effect seating depth has, try different charge weights, try crimp/not crimp etc.
How dull to think you might have one of those rare factory rifles that can produce near benchrest accuracy but you never knew because your first load shot passably ok and you never bothered to try anything else.
What happens when the "recipe" powder or bullet is not available - how are you going to know how to work up a load? What about when you change your rifle - You may not be so lucky next time.Isn't this the same as those "shooter" who haven't a clue about how to zero a scope because it was fitted at the gun shop and I've never needed to change it.
Anyway, what better excuse do you need to get out and get some trigger time?
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That's not a bad start, but why stop there - that's just the first step on a long, interesting and satisfying journey. Of course, it depends on why you want to reload and what you want to achieve.
If you're happy to just load a few rounds with acceptable results and save yourself a few bob then you're already there - stick to the same "recipe" push in your "heads" to what ever it says in the book and go and blag a few foxes. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I just feel it's like running an old classic motorcycle and taking to a garage to be serviced - getting your hands dirty and understanding how it works is half the fun.
Let's say there are a million combinations for loads in your rifle with locally available components - are you happy that you hit the jackpot on your first try?
That group looks about 1 moa at 80 yards - about comparable with a good .22lr on a still day. Yes, there's more to come, do some proper load development and enjoy another entirely new aspect of your chosen hobby.
I've been reloading for more than forty years and still enjoy searching for the prefect load.
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There is an answer to this problem but I think they would be difficult to find over here, and many US companies seem reluctant to send much over now.
http://www.customreloadingtools.com/crt_065.htm
It's the same problem with the odd size scope mounts - I've just resorted to making a 20moa rail for my own 527 and converting it to standard picatinny to take any rings.
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A quick re read of the OP and I see he says rifle.Certainly will need an FAC if it is so, rather than a smoothbore musket.
I need an explosives licence to buy and store BP for my pistols but not needed for nitro substitutes.
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I pretty sure you can own it, you just won't be able to buy or use blackpowder - You could investigate the nitro PB substitutes (pyrodex etc.) but not sure if you could ignite it with a flint.
BL licence is not hard to obtain.
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It's not discounting the flyers, it just doesn't ruin the rest of the good shooting.
These would all have hit a fox in the right place (although not sure why it's shooting so low - it was zeroed at 100yds so should only be .2" low at 50...)
A good read of this might clarify (or confuse) - it's where I got most of my calculations from
That's an interesting read - especially the analysis concerning 3 shot groups, should be required reading.
.http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218The flyers tell you more about the load/shooter/rifle than the rest of the group. If you look at your Hornday group, not too bad except the flyer, but look at the hole the flyer has made, not quite the same as the other holes. It looks like there is a certain amount of yaw, this may be due to a marginally stabilised bullet, excessive bullet run-out, loading a case with a split neck, low powder charge etc.
If your aim is to find a satisfactory round that will be easy to load and fairly consistent I would suggest you ditch all your odd cases and stick to one batch, all the same, not just the same make but from the same batch (buy a hundred Lapua cases and be done with it) Find a good mid range bullet suitable for the twist rate of your barrel, not on the ragged edge of what might stabilise on a good day.
Practice using the measure so you get consistent drops within .2 grain (You would be better to weigh each one until you have your load/rifle shooting good consistent groups)
The Lee measure works as well as any other measure and better than many.
Shoot from a consistent stable platform. Your groups show an element of vertical stringing, this is often due to using a bipod or resting the rifle on a hard surface rather than a sandbag. Also try and shoot at a greater distance, scopes often have parallax problems at shorter ranges
Discount any load that throws unexplained flyers, and yes, the flyers all count in the group size.
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I know the theory but a group size should be something you can compare, apples to apples, not apples to oranges. To my mind, a group is 5 shots at 100yds, warts and all.
Measure the outside edge of the two furthest apart holes then subtract the calibre. This can then be compared with any other group size.
http://www.freewebs.com/ukbra/currentrecords.htm
I know it's not always possible to shoot at 100yds - so a calculated pro-rata MOA is reasonably comparable, but a .5 moa at 50 yards will not necessarily give you a 3.25" group at 300 yards.
Good to see five shot groups, three shot groups are significantly easier, but the flyers shouldn't be discounted, they can give you valuable information - is the bullet borderline stable, is there a significant velocity spread, excessive bullet runout, you the shooter, bedding etc.
Remember "internet" groups are always sub .5moa, real world five shot groups seldom are, especially if there are more than two groups on the same sheet of paper. Of course you can often claim really tight groups if you shoot three shots and discount the flyer and the one you pulled off.
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Excellent work with the software - it looks like it compares very well with "on target" but not sure how you are arriving at your group size? That looks like a 1.38" or 2.64 moa group to me.
alternatives!
in General Shooting Matters
Posted
Ah yes. It might have been the dog licence that was 7/6d
I remember getting my licence and going straight off to buy a Webley bolt action .410 for (I think) about £11.