Scope Performance

[Axe]

I am currently using a Walther 3-9x40 PA Illuminated scope which works good enough. In comparison to some scopes its not the best but for what I use it for its just fine. However, when out shooting in the evenings during dusk, I loose alot of definition through the scope.

 

Is there a way to make get more from the scope?

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[dunganick]

use it on 6x or below, that will mean you have the maximum light gathering ability for your objective lense size.

[Axe]

I currently have it set at around 5.5 and never go over this. Im sure i've seen posts where people have mentioned scope boosters, do you know what this is?

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited July 22, 2005 by Axe

[pete evans]

why 6x? i thought the lower the mag the better, using this rationale 3x would be better, surely?

 

pete

[dunganick]

the reason being that it has something to do with the angle light can enter your eye (i dont know the posh term) there is a whole series of power to ob/lense size ratio's, that why you get fixed power scopes at 6x42 7x50 and 8x56 because these are the optimum light gathering combinations, you would get just as good light gathering with a 1/2/3/4/5/6/7x56 scope, but you dont make full use of the lense size like the 8x56 does

 

its hard to explain, and not being the best at explaining these things its probably not that clear.

 

but have a leaf through some magazines, you will almost always see 6x42's, 7x50's and 8x56's, becuase it is the correct size objective lense for the power

 

like i said it has something to do with the angle light can enter our eyes but i only understand the theory not the science, im sure one of the lads can explain it again, like they have in the past :(

 

another theory im affraid to say is that your scopes light transfering abilities are not too good, i know that the walthers didnt get a very high low light rating in a recent airgun scope servey, i think it was 3*'s

 

i havent a clue what a scope booster is im affraid

[Axe]

Thanks Nick, it all seems pretty logical regards to the mag. I must admit I have a set of 4x32 Mount Master Scopes by Nikko Stirling on my old faithful BSA Meteor and they have fantastic clarity.

 

The Walthers came with the rifle and will go with the rifle when I sell it. As for the illuminated tecticle, well no use to me at the moment, but then I havent tried lamping yet.

 

I have seen pics of some scopes fitted with a very long tube infront of where the front lens would be. Is this to stop glare? any other suggestions?

 

Thanks again,

 

Axe.

[dunganick]

yes, that stops a mix of glare and in some centerfire rifles helps stop heat haze

 

i intend to get some for my rimfire becuase they look pretty :(

[Axe]

Nothing that a toilet roll, tin of black paint and some sticky tape won' cure! :( :thumbs:

 

Now remember children always have an adult present when using scissors!!

 

And for the ultimate accessory, leave a small amount of tissue on the roll. Useful for cleaning the gun!.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[dunganick]

:thumbs:

 

i know people who would do that as well :(

[roblade]

Hi mate about the best thing you can do with the scope is sell it and get a better one (one with out I.R (illuminated reticle)) failing that try the following:

 

as has already been said shoot on the lowest mag possible, but you should bare in mind that it is possible changing the mag will effect your zero.

 

2. try a scope maximizer little expensive at £15 and might not be suited to your shooting position.

 

If you do decide to sell your scope ahve a think about what you want your new

 

I think the bit your on about going in front of the lens is a sun shade usful when shooting in bright light or when using lamps have looked through scopes with and without them and in normal daylight conditions cant say it makes much difference.

 

Though must admit it does make me giggle when i go to the club and see all these expensive rifles (daystate MK3, aa S410 and others) with cheap hawke scope mounted on them! e.g. S410 walnut thumbhole stock £550 ish scope and mounts £60 ish!!!!! You should always buget at least 1/3 of the cost of the rifle for a decent scope eg 1/3 of £550 = £180, you should always compliment the rifle with a set of lenses it deserves.

 

All my scopes have cost as much and sometimes more than the rifle im shooting has cost me! though should admit all my rifles have been second hand, but then again all my scopes have been as well:

 

tx200 MK1 £120 bushnell trophy 3-9x40 new £165

tx 200 MK3 £140 bushnell trophy 3-9x40 as new £80

gunpower stealth £200 wtc 6.5-20x50 S/H £95 (new i guess up around £300)

king rat catcher £100 hawke HD sport s/h £20 (new £40)

 

if you get a chance have a look at the simmons white tail classic 1.5-5x20 YES 20mm objective lens! absolutly amzing optics for £50 second hand! had one mounted on a rifle i had and was allowing me to shoot in darker conditions than my bushnell trophy 3-9x40. OK so maybe it dosnt have the high mag and maybe you will ahve to learn the hold over points for the 30/30 ret but its small light weight and you dont have to fiddle about looking at the scope to see where you 5x mag setting is.

 

Like i said first thing though sell the scope you already have and get a scope more suited to your needs.

 

ROB :(

[donkeymagic]

Ive looked through a couple of Walthers and wasnt too impressed.

 

Id get rid if i were you, especially if you want something decent for lamping.

[Axe]

Thanks for the insight Rob.

 

What exactly is a scope maximiser and how does it work?

 

In the main, the Walthers are ok. Good point about the Zero, im gonna have another plink just to check it all out. I know when you set the scope to full mag, i.e. x9 the scope is all out of shape reghards zero etc, but the PA does work well!

 

The IR is a waste of time in my opinion. I havent had any reason to use it at all. Infact I would say it is annoying as my cap catches on the battery holder. :(

 

I might just mount the Nikko's on it and see how that goes.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[donkeymagic]

I know when you set the scope to full mag, i.e. x9 the scope is all out of shape reghards zero etc, but the PA does work well!

You should not be loosing your zero just because you have altered the mag setting.

 

The IR is a waste of time in my opinion. I havent had any reason to use it at all. Infact I would say it is annoying as my cap catches on the battery holder. :(

IR has its advantages. In low light or lamping it comes into its own. Works very well with an XVD Night Vision attatchment also providing you only use the IR on a low setting (may damage the tube otherwise)

[Guest Mr Pieman]

IR is a boys toy IMHO. Use a good quality lamp and shoot within its lighting ability. Ihe ir sometimes oblitarates your vision of the target on occasions.

 

If rabbits (not so much foxes) are so lamp shy you have to use night vision, something has gone horribly wrong. Jusyt because they can't see you doesn't make them deaf and blind too :thumbs:

 

Axe, I have a Schmidt & Bender scope on my rimfire and centrefire. It is top quality glass and performs excellently in low light/darkness. I'd save your pennies and go for some good glass if I were you.

 

If you want to have a look through it we cound always meet up sometime, I'm only in Battle and shoot land from here to Ringmer!!

 

Cheers :(

 

PP

 

PS Before I put my scope onto the rimfire it was on an AA410.

[donkeymagic]

IR is a boys toy IMHO.  Use a good quality lamp and shoot within its lighting ability.  Ihe ir sometimes oblitarates your vision of the target on occasions

Boys toy? yeah suppose, its a bit gimmicky.

 

I still like to use it though. I found that when using an old Logun lamp kit with red filter (underpowered as far as lamping kits go) that a green illuminated reticle on a medium/low setting worked really well.

 

Obviously the more powerful the lamp then the less need for IR you will have in this partcular scenario. I personally prefered shooting with the red filter on and making use of the IR. The rabbits didnt bolt as easy and i could always be 100% sure as to where the cross hares were pointing thanks to the green illumination. Thats the idea of it.

 

If rabbits (not so much foxes) are so lamp shy you have to use night vision, something has gone horribly wrong.  Jusyt because they can't see you doesn't make them deaf and blind too :(  :thumbs:

Not a fan of NV either? But lamping your perfectly ok with? Not deaf and blind yet they cant see you? Im not sure i see where your going here

 

Axe, I have a Schmidt & Bender scope on my rimfire and centrefire.  It is top quality glass and performs excellently in low light/darkness.  I'd save your pennies and go for some good glass if I were you.

Id also say go and look for some good glass, if you wish to go down the expensive route then as Pie Man says, you cant really go wrong with a S&B.

 

Reffering back to your original post, having looked through a Walther of a similar spec to your own id advise you to look elsewhere. Again based on what i saw i cant see you really improving on what is essentially pi*s poor optics.

 

As Pieman points out there is superb quality glass out there if you wish to go down the remortgage route. Again refering to your original post, there are nice scopes out there of a similar spec to what your currently using and also in a similar kind of price brackett to that of the Walther.

 

Regards

 

Donkey

[roblade]

I know when you set the scope to full mag, i.e. x9 the scope is all out of shape reghards zero etc, but the PA does work well!

You should not be loosing your zero just because you have altered the mag setting.

 

The IR is a waste of time in my opinion. I havent had any reason to use it at all. Infact I would say it is annoying as my cap catches on the battery holder. :(

IR has its advantages. In low light or lamping it comes into its own. Works very well with an XVD Night Vision attatchment also providing you only use the IR on a low setting (may damage the tube otherwise)

with regard to the first popint about loosinmg zero on different mag, its a sad fact that the cheaper you go on scopes htis happens more and more have seen so many people at the club wondering whats happening to thier rifles and not thinking about the scope being the problem

 

as for the I.R on scopes its a case of if you need it use it if not get a scope without it, a lamp and an IR scope is a much cheaper option than NV.

 

have seena lot of people at the club with thier new rifles and then the first thing they change is the scope some want high mag some want PA and some want better quality. But almost all could have bought the right scope with the rifle had they done thier home work first

 

ROB :thumbs:

[Evilv]

Nothing that a toilet roll, tin of black paint and some sticky tape won' cure! :( :thumbs:

 

Now remember children always have an adult present when using scissors!!

 

And for the ultimate accessory, leave a small amount of tissue on the roll. Useful for cleaning the gun!.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Cheapskate!

 

I bet you put bits of cardboard and old lino in your shoes when the soles wear out...

 

 

 

Yes Dunganick the ratio thing is important. My old man bought me some 15x22 binoculars - you can't see a thing unless its June an the sun is fully out - oh and between 11.00 and 14.00. Too much mag and not enough light gathering ability. Poor old ******, he thought they'd be great - I told him they were fantastic.

[SNAKEBITE]

Don't forget that there seems to be more 30mm dia tube scopes around now.

In theory a 40mm objective lense with 30mm tube lets as much light in as a 50mm objective with 25mm tube.

So a 50mm ob've and 30mm tube should be superb!

 

I was quite impressed with the walther scopes I was looking at at the Parham show.

Very taken with the 30mm tube idea.

 

Wasn't sure about the illuminated reticule. Wanted one but NEEDED one?........

Think I'll save the money or spend it on a better scope.

 

What about fixed scopes?

I was thinking about maybe having a fixed mag scope. The reasoning was that If I couldn't see the target properly then it was out of range!

Somthing in the region of 6x.

 

Comments please.

[donkeymagic]

Plenty of scopes nocking around now with 30mm tubes.

 

Ive seen a Walther 4x32 AO IR with 30mm tube and i was also fairly impressed. I think it was a mil dot reticle.

 

30mm tubes aint the be all and end all. There is still plenty of **** out there, some with 30mm tubes. They are certainly the 'in' thing at the moment.

 

What about fixed scopes?

I was thinking about maybe having a fixed mag scope. The reasoning was that If I couldn't see the target properly then it was out of range!

Somthing in the region of 6x.

 

Comments please.

What you shooting snakebite? With what gun?

[Riothedog]

The exact term is 'Exit Pupil' and it is the ratio between magnification and size of the objective lens. 56mm divided by 8 is 7 and this is the magic number. 7, and it's measured in 'mm'. Your eye cannot take in a figure higher than 7mm. Ideally between 5mm and 7mm so the cone of light projected from the scopes ocluar lens coincides with the diameter of your eye's pupil at low light. Any higher is light that your eye cannot process and any lower is magnification that is not being used. And, as previously stated, it's a light issue and the higher the magnification, the dimmer the picture you will see.

 

Adaptors. If it's a duff or poor quality scope then anything that adapts or magnifies it will only make it worse.

 

On my Deer rifles I use Meopta which is the same cost of the rifle - or thereabouts - and on my .17hmr I have a Nightforce 5-22 x 56mm which is 3 times the value of the rifle! If you can't see it, you can't hit it.

 

There was an issue on the placement of the reticule within the scope. Some place it before the magnification and some after. The reticule should not move when the scope is magnified. It just makes life difficult.

 

30mm tubes. The theory is that the light has an easier passage from the bell lens to the eye lens. Every time light passes through a lens it looses some brightness. Every time it bounces off the side of the tube, it looses some more. So, the idea is that the light doesn't bounce as much and the angles are not as sharp. This goes onto quality of the scope and explains why Swarvoski are so expensive! Good glass.

 

Lens hoods keep out unwanted light and can be useful.

 

I heartily recommend Meopta, Zeiss, S&B and Swarofski - anything of that standard - as scopes for everything and don't really go for the concept of cheaper scopes that are for airrifles. They are just cheaper. The dimensions don't matter if it's a peice of ****. :( It's still a piece of ****! It's like selling a lock for a motorbike. The theory is that a more expensive bike needs a more expensive lock. Baldercrap! It's not the value of the lock, it's the performance of the lock that is important. And the same goes for 'scopes and Bino's.

 

Such is my understanding of these matters....

 

RTD

[roblade]

OK so maybe i havent had the chance of looking through the top end glass like some one here, one day i will but until then can only coment on what i have seen.

 

My advise to a guy at the club recently who bought a TX200 combo cant rember the scope he used to have on it but was one of the basic hawke range, he swapped it for a edgar brothers 6x42(or might be 44) and he was pleased with it was a lot clearer than the scope he used to have and because of the fixed mag and 30/30 ret it took a lot les working out for the hold over/under, this was about a month ago, and now he has upgraded once more to a variable mag scope simmons WTC 3.5-10x50, are the optics any better? i dont think so. Can he see where the pellet is going, a lot clearer than before? yes he can, as he only shoots paper targets at the club, the mag does come in very handy.

 

but i do feel that a fixed mag scope is probably one of the best scopes for taking to the fields, once you have learnt the different aim points for the variouse ranges it is never going to vary as the mag is fixed. Have seen some people changing the mag on the scope and wondering why they arnt hitting the target using the 3rd mil dot down as they always do, a fixed mag scope would take this error away every time.

 

there is no one scope out there that i woud say THIS IS THE SCOPE YOU WANT! its just something you should make your own mind up about. We on here can give you all the advice and experiance we have with scopes, but when you look through a scope you may well not agree with us (or others with me LOL)

 

One thing i should point out though that i cant rember seeing on this thread is when you look through a scope you like, try to look at a varity of things both near and far on variouse settings,

 

you may find that on the highest mag target is clear but cross hairs are out of focus, if it has a quick focus eye bell try changing it even if it hasnt ask the owner/shop helper how to change ti to your eye.

 

Or you may find that the target is blurry but the cross hair clear, if the scope has front or side parelax get the target into focus using that if not dont panic as you can reparelax most scopes to 35yards very easily (very scary the first time you do it, always wonder if the gass will escape LOL but dont worry you should be safe :thumbs:)

 

there are so many pit falls to find when buying a scope, most of them can be sorted out quickly and easily about the only thing that cant be sorted is physical damage to the scope, but this only happens on a few second hand scopes (i.e. squashed tube from mounts being too tight, or scratched lenses)

 

As i said before have a look at the best quality lenses you can then when you have it narrowed down to 3 or 4 ask what we think of them.

 

hope this helps you out a little

 

ROB

 

PS still think the little WTC 1.5-5x20 should be amongst the scopes you look at :( LOL

[SNAKEBITE]

What you shooting snakebite? With what gun?

I am using a cheap scope that was given to me by jjaxeman on this forum.

The only problem I have had was today when t was raining and it misted up.

I had used it lamping from Jan-? when daylight meant i didn't have to use a lamp with no real problems other than my own incompetence!

 

BUT I am now reaching the stage where i feel an upgrade is worthwhile. I have been looking around for advice on what to get!

 

 

OH it's on a HW57 by the way.

 

It might be going on somthing else soon, but thats another story!!

[SNAKEBITE]

Just picked up a HAWKE 3-9x50 pro-stalk scope for 60 nicker.

 

Under half the shop price. It was on e-bay. Hope I haven't bought a lemon :(

 

So......... have i done well or not? Too late really so maybe I don't want to know!

[roblade]

personaly would have asked this BEFORE agreeing to buy LOL

 

as long as the scope is undamaged, its a fair price but when you get it as he has said there are crimp marks on it check to ensure it is not crushed, have a good look at it before you mount it. Does make me wonder why hes selling it after only a very small amount of use.

 

personaly it wouldnt have been at the top of my shopping list but then im not the one thats going to be using it LOL

 

ROB :(

[SNAKEBITE]

personaly would have asked this BEFORE agreeing to buy LOL

 

as long as the scope is undamaged, its a fair price but when you get it as he has said there are crimp marks on it check to ensure it is not crushed, have a good look at it before you mount it. Does make me wonder why hes selling it after only a very small amount of use.

 

personaly it wouldnt have been at the top of my shopping list but then im not the one thats going to be using it LOL

 

ROB

I will check it out thouroughly before putting it on.

If it is no good then it will be going straight back!

 

I had done a little research before going into it so it wasn't completly an impulse buy!

The thing is that if you asked 10 people on this forum what scope they would buy then you will get about 11 different answers!

I know you can get better but hopefully you can get a lot worse!! :( :thumbs:

 

Will let you know.

 

(It isn't one of you lot selling it is it?)