chrisb123 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi there, Have been pigeon shooting for some time and have a semi auto 12 bore. I have access and approval to a lot of land on my door step (1000 acres+). There is also a need to control the quantity of rabbits and other vermin, often at long distances 150yrds+. As a result i am looking at getting a centre fire rifle and am currently completing the FAC and want a top quality rifle with sightes and mod. The questions i would like help and guidance on are: What is the best calibre to go for, i am advised on a .17 for distance and power (would like the best and not have to progress)? What is the best make / models? What sights? Is there a master of all, including night vision, laser etc or is more than one better? Where are the best prices? Is any one looking at selling a complete unit. On completing the FAC, i have simply put that i am intending to get a .17 rifle. Is this sufficient when you do not have a rifle at the point of applying or is more detail better? Cheers guys You knowledge and expertise is most welcome. Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Do you mean a CF .17 or HMR? I know nothing about the CF .17, but if you are looking for a small fast round also look into the .204 Ruger. Although both will pulverise a rabbit, and will get expensive to run if you have heavy rabbit infestation. I'd consider a rimfire (.22/.17hmr/.22wmr) and also a centerfire, consider if you will be shooting deer and if so find out the smallest calibre allowed by your local police force. On your FAC you will need to specify CF or RF, and also don't forget to put in that you also require a moderator, many people are caught out by this. Lots of models to look at, CZ are very popular, but far from the most expensive. Scopes- Highest quality glass is expensive, look at swarovski, S&B, Zeiss. Edited March 17, 2010 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft dog Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Why not put in for more than one at the start....i would lay money on you wanting/needing another rifle further down the line! I think general consencus is for pest control rifles .22lr followed by a .17hmr followed by a .22 centerfie (.222/.223/22-250). each have a purpose and a use. the .17hmr will be fine for longer distances than the .22lr but if the wind picks up it can easily be blown off course which is where the .22 centerfire comes into play (also suitable for foxes out to 250m+ if your good enough)....of the .22 centerfire my choice would be a .223 because i belive its easier to get hold of cheaper ammo - other may disagree though. If you only put in for one now, you'll have to pay to get a variation later down the line. if you end up deciding you don't need or want any others then just don't buy one and when your up for first renewall just get it removed then. like said above request a mod for each one you apply for also even if they can be interchangeable (b/c you'll be done for having a mod on say a .223 if you have only authority to have it on your .17hmr. Liek said perviously CZ probably a good starting point, or just have a look at gun trader for the relavent calibre ATB DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi, Looking at your third sentence, the glib answer is a 22 Hornet, adding Leupold to the wish list of scopes already provided. The Anschutz is top notch. But with 1000+ acres you have a problem: A nice one, but still a problem. Help us to help you: Are you in Scotland? Are you going to shoot deer, if so what species? Is fox on the 'menu' and if so what realistically is your maximum safe range within your capability? Apart from the rabbit is there any other species involved? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikka tom Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 22lr browning t-bolt siynik and verry light or 17 marlin there a good gun as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Any rifle, if it has not been abused, that is made by Anschutz will be far more accurate than you or I ever will be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 .17hmr is more than capable at 150 yards as for best quality scope i would be looking at Nightforce and they come up at around the £1000 mark second hand if not more. But i don't think that is needed on the hmr IMHO, you can manage with far less around the £200 mark will get you a very good scope suitable for hmr. As said you will need to apply for a moderator separately and i would consider applying .22 centerfire or .243 for fox and deer if you have some rifle experience if not you may be hard pushed to get one. As for rifle if you opt for .17hmr then CZ is good and if a centerfire then Tikka or Sako or maybe CZ again. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb123 Posted March 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi there, I am from lincolnshire (north east part). Foxes would be the largest on the list. I guess max safe range would 800mtrs. Cheers Hi,Looking at your third sentence, the glib answer is a 22 Hornet, adding Leupold to the wish list of scopes already provided. The Anschutz is top notch. But with 1000+ acres you have a problem: A nice one, but still a problem. Help us to help you: Are you in Scotland? Are you going to shoot deer, if so what species? Is fox on the 'menu' and if so what realistically is your maximum safe range within your capability? Apart from the rabbit is there any other species involved? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi there, I am from lincolnshire (north east part). Foxes would be the largest on the list. I guess max safe range would 800mtrs. Cheers Are you suggesting you will be attempting foxes at 800 mtrs? If not, how far do you realistically think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Are you suggesting you will be attempting foxes at 800 mtrs? If not, how far do you realistically think? I regularly do that with my non fac break barrel air rifle George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGadger Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Are you suggesting you will be attempting foxes at 800 mtrs? If not, how far do you realistically think? A fox @ 800 mtrs by someone not used to rifles....... hm... is this a wind-up? FG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Before we jump on the guy maybe he means 800 mtrs is the backstop? If not.... 0.338 LapMag should do it............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Chris, hi, As you've gathered, we've hit a problem. Some figures; a 55gr bullet leaving a 223 barrel at the optimum angle travelling at 3240ft/sec will fall to earth at a distance of 2.2 miles with 36ft/lbs of energy which could well kill. Consequently, a safe distance would be judged to be some 3 miles unless there is some form of natural backstop (bank, hill, etc) to stop the bullet. What I was after was are there any such backstops far enough away to permit you to shoot at the maximum range that you figure you can achieve accurately or are you going to be restricted because any such stops are closer to the point from where you would shoot. A recent discussion on the Forum revealed that while it was recognised that there are a few members that are extremely capable of far longer ranges for the majority of us mere mortals distances between 200 and 300 yards were the norm. Cheers Edited March 17, 2010 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb123 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hi, thanks for the info, I meant approx 800 mtrs to nearest hill/wooded area. There are several areas to shoot on and some have several miles completely clear on many sides. Cheers Chris B Chris, hi,As you've gathered, we've hit a problem. Some figures; a 55gr bullet leaving a 223 barrel at the optimum angle travelling at 3240ft/sec will fall to earth at a distance of 2.2 miles with 36ft/lbs of energy which could well kill. Consequently, a safe distance would be judged to be some 3 miles unless there is some form of natural backstop (bank, hill, etc) to stop the bullet. What I was after was are there any such backstops far enough away to permit you to shoot at the maximum range that you figure you can achieve accurately or are you going to be restricted because any such stops are closer to the point from where you would shoot. A recent discussion on the Forum revealed that while it was recognised that there are a few members that are extremely capable of far longer ranges for the majority of us mere mortals distances between 200 and 300 yards were the norm. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hi, for your purposes a heavy barrel 17machIV / 17remington fireball (essentially the same cartridge) pushing a 25 gn hornady projectile at 3800fps will do all that you require and more. Top it with an 8x56 Kahles (no 4 reticle) and you will have a superb outfit. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hi, thanks for the info, I meant approx 800 mtrs to nearest hill/wooded area. There are several areas to shoot on and some have several miles completely clear on many sides. Cheers Chris B Hi, That answer has made quite a few of us turn a peculiar colour green. I think the exact shade is called 'envy'. There's already details of quality rifles and scopes posted, so you pays your money and takes your choice, but I feel that ultimately you'll want more than one. For fox out to a little over 300 yards a 223 is good. Over that, you're into 22-250 territory. For normal range rabbit, a 22lr is good. For longer ranges and short range fox, a 22 WMR is fine but you'll get people saying that a HMR will do both. No argument from me. The 22lr will need a moderator for rabbits with sub-sonic rounds and possibly the others if you don't want to disturb the countyside and the neigbours (what neighbours!) too much. Cheaper (short range) NV scopes are deadly for rabbit, but for centre-fire work, you're looking at £4000+ for quality. I would suggest having a word with your FEO and see what he says. If he's not too happy about the larger calibre to start with, I'd settle for th 22WMR and take it from there. Who knows, you may get lucky. Good luck, Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hi, thanks for the info, I meant approx 800 mtrs to nearest hill/wooded area. There are several areas to shoot on and some have several miles completely clear on many sides. Cheers Chris B I am getting lost... How big is the + here??? (1000 acres+). And how many miles are several miles completely clear on many sides. And do you have permission to shoot into these several miles completely clear on many sides. And why is it that you have all this land and everything needs to be taken at vast distances with the best rifles and otpics known to man? And who has been shooting what on this land previously? I think this would help us understand you apparent problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I am getting lost... How big is the + here??? (1000 acres+). And how many miles are several miles completely clear on many sides. And do you have permission to shoot into these several miles completely clear on many sides. And why is it that you have all this land and everything needs to be taken at vast distances with the best rifles and otpics known to man? And who has been shooting what on this land previously? I think this would help us understand you apparent problems. Dekers, hi, Sorry, can't do these quotey bits. To be fair the chap did say that he wanted quality to start with to avoid progressing. He also said that he would be shooting at long distances. These he defined as 150+ yards. Surely, that's not vast. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb123 Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 The advice is very good, even the **** take. 800 mtrs is the back drop (safe upto that point). Are you suggesting you will be attempting foxes at 800 mtrs? If not, how far do you realistically think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb123 Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) I will clarify. I am getting lost... How big is the + here???A tenant farmer, he has 2500 acres, i have current access to approx 1000, mainly rape and bean. (1000 acres+). And how many miles are Approx 2 miles.several miles completely clear on many sides approx 2 miles. And do you have permission to shoot into these several miles completely clear on many sidesYes. And why is it that you have all this land and everything needs to be taken at vast distances with the best rifles and otpics known to man It doesn't, but as many areas are exposed I feel the ability for distance would be an advantage. And who has been shooting what on this land previously? Mostly none, just two other guys with shot guns. I think this would help us understand you apparent problems. I hope this help clarify. i am simply looking for fifle advice and do not want to buying a set up and having to change it further down the line. Cheers Chris B Edited March 20, 2010 by chrisb123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb123 Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Thanks for the advise, that is just what i wanted, a 17 HMR is what appears to be the better all round choice. What is the typical acreage guys have access to on here. Cheers Hi, That answer has made quite a few of us turn a peculiar colour green. I think the exact shade is called 'envy'. There's already details of quality rifles and scopes posted, so you pays your money and takes your choice, but I feel that ultimately you'll want more than one. For fox out to a little over 300 yards a 223 is good. Over that, you're into 22-250 territory. For normal range rabbit, a 22lr is good. For longer ranges and short range fox, a 22 WMR is fine but you'll get people saying that a HMR will do both. No argument from me. The 22lr will need a moderator for rabbits with sub-sonic rounds and possibly the others if you don't want to disturb the countyside and the neigbours (what neighbours!) too much. Cheaper (short range) NV scopes are deadly for rabbit, but for centre-fire work, you're looking at £4000+ for quality. I would suggest having a word with your FEO and see what he says. If he's not too happy about the larger calibre to start with, I'd settle for th 22WMR and take it from there. Who knows, you may get lucky. Good luck, Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Thanks for the advise, that is just what i wanted, a 17 HMR is what appears to be the better all round choice. What is the typical acreage guys have access to on here. Cheers HMR are a good round, but look at the .22 too, go for both on your application. Typical acreage varies massively, some have none at all and are seeking, I know of one shooter on here with excess of 10,000 acres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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