AA S200 vs Weihrauch HW97k

[BountyHunter]

Ok here's the problem.

 

I went into the gunsmiths a couple of months ago to buy myself a HW97K, as they were out of stock I allowed myself to be seduced by the S200. The cost was similar except that the charging kit costs an extra £200 or so.

 

Having used the S200 for the intrim I'm not 100% happy with it. It seems to be fairly inconsistant with the zero shifting regularly, it isn't my shooting or the accuracy of the gun, when the zero shifts it places pellets one on top of the other until it shifts again. It also seems to be inconsistant in terms of power, my first kill was a woody, at 35 yds the pellet went in through the breast in front of the wing and then clean out the other side killing it instantly, the same day I went out and watched a pellet bounce off a coneys head, the rabbit looked at me and strolled off for cover. I tracked the pellet in through the scope and saw it ping off.

 

I spoke to several people including the gunsmith, all of whom gave differing accounts of what was going wrong but nobody fixing the problem and it is difficult to prove that it isn't incompetence on my part.

 

I am contemplating going and part exchanging it for the Weihrauch as I have an opportunity now for paid coney clearing and I don't want to injure any bunnies. The other option is to use an old lightning that I was given, it seems in terms of consistancy more powerful and accurate than the S200. If I were to use that then I could trade the S200 in on a very nice Shotty that I saw at the weekend (licence pending).

 

What do you guys think?

Edited November 18, 2005 by BountyHunter

[SNAKEBITE]

Get the gunsmith to check the gun over and chrono it.

It could be a powercurve problem but in my opinion and plinking I have found the powercurve (granted on a s410k) to be a bit of something and nothing, in short nothing to worry about.

Not saying it is your fault but it is probably not the fault of the gun (hows that for a cop out!). It was just an unlucky shot.

 

As for the zero shift, which way is it going? Up/down could be a power thing (but unlikely) left/right coud be something loose on the scope mounting. Or the scope itself.

On cheaper scopes the zero can shift when you change magnification, could this be it?

 

It could be the way you "address" the rifle. Do you hold it in a consistent manner?

 

Haven't got the answer for you but hope you can pick a few pointers out of this lot.

Good luck.

[Jon-Boy]

I have an s200 and its the most accurate thing i have ever shot!!, havent adjusted the zero since ive had it!!

 

You may have a scope problem there!

[Axe]

BH, Snakebite has given you some good ideas to check with regards the scope etc. The rifle should perform more than good enough for field work. You might also consider the moderator, do you take it off after use? Try testing the rifle without the Moderator. Is it possible the rifle is being knocked about at all.?

 

By the way, something I picked up on that you mentioned, being paid to pest control rabbits. Check that your insurance covers you for such things. I for one was surprised to learn that BASC insurance does not cover members when they earn reward (monetary or otherwise) when shooting. Just a word of caution. :thumbs:

[BountyHunter]

Scope problems were one thing that the gunsmith suggested, it shifts diagonally up and right or down and left. He suggested that I tap it after moving the screw as he thought that I was adjusting it, noting the point where the pellet had hit but the scope had settled during that shot giving the illusion that he zero had shifted.

 

I don't like the inconsistancy, I can't hunt effectivly not knowing whether the shot is going to kill or just injure.

 

Is the A200 that much better than the HW97K?

Edited November 18, 2005 by BountyHunter

[BountyHunter]

BH, Snakebite has given you some good ideas to check with regards the scope etc. The rifle should perform more than good enough for field work. You might also consider the moderator, do you take it off after use? Try testing the rifle without the Moderator. Is it possible the rifle is being knocked about at all.?

 

By the way, something I picked up on that you mentioned, being paid to pest control rabbits. Check that your insurance covers you for such things. I for one was surprised to learn that BASC insurance does not cover members when they earn reward (monetary or otherwise) when shooting. Just a word of caution. :thumbs:

Axe - Cheers for the advice mate, I wouldn't have thought to check whether the insurance had clauses or not. I'd do it for the fun mind, cash is just a bonus.

 

As regards the moderator, it doesn't have one - the discharge isn't too noisy as long as it isn't "dry", if you forget to load up a pell it sounds like an, all be it quiet, shotgun.

 

BH

[Jon-Boy]

You should get the AA moderator for it, its as quiet as a nats ****!!

 

Also get the 10 shot magazine system for it, works wonders!

[BountyHunter]

You should get the AA moderator for it, its as quiet as a nats ****!!

 

Also get the 10 shot magazine system for it, works wonders!

Cheers for the input mate, I am really reluctant to waste any more money on the s200 until these issues are sorted.

 

When I bought it the mod and mag were high on the to buy list, at the moment I won't waste money on Pells for it...

[Axe]

Its very easier to loose faith in a rifle. Stick with it though BH you'll be greatful for it. I had similar probs with my S-16, I was going all over the place couldnt trace it down to anything. Had the gun checked all was ok. cleaned up the moderator etc, still no change, in the end it was my shooting buddies that put me straight, they noticed I was snatching the trigger. After sorting that I was hitting under 1/2 groups at 33 yards. Certainly re-installed my faith in the rifle.

[Jon-Boy]

can i ask if the little rubber seal is still attached to the bolt (can be seen by looking where the pellet goes). Mine fell off a few times and this causes the gun to have eractic velocities and will most certainly effect accuracy!

[roblade]

have never heard of an AA S200 loosing zero, but i have heard of pleanty of scopes loosing zero, some over night and some from one shot to the next.

 

I onder if its a hawke varmint scope your using??

 

a lot of the cheaper end scopes will loose zero if you alter the magnification! what ever mag you zero the rifle with use this for all your shooting when checking a rifles accuracy!

 

have heard of one way of checking this zero the rifle, then take 5 shots at a fresh target, then give it 20 clicks right, fire 5 shots, using same aim point (not aiming off to compentsate!) 20 clicks up, another 5 shots 20 clicks left, guess what, yep, another 5 shots and then finally 20 clicks down nd the final 5 shots, which if the scope is good should be the same place as the first 5 shots.

 

the S200 i have owned was pellet on pellet or at least within 0.5" of the pellet over about 20 shots at 35 yards (maybe one or two flyers!)

 

you also dont say what pellets your using and do you check for any damaged pellets? any damaged or deformed pellets will cause it to have flyers.

 

as for it being a lesser rifle to the HW97 if it were my chocie and i was new to the sport i would ahve no hesitation in picking up an S200 over the HW97 for the fields any day. Its quiet (with mod fitted) its light, and its a hell of a lot easier to shoot accuratly.

 

ROB

[SNAKEBITE]

If it is the rubber o-ring that sits just inside the breech end of the barrel then give me a shout and I can send one over FOC.

I do not know what AA charge for them but they are a standars O-ring available at retailers for little money.

Part number .177 = BS008 .22 = BS009.

 

These are British Standard part numbers and will mean something to those who sell them.

[SNAKEBITE]

I meant to add that tapping the scope after adjustment (LIGHTLY) can help if something is sticky. It is a habit I picked up on my first toilet tube scope and still do. Why? who knows but psychologically it works and doesn't do any harm!

[BountyHunter]

Thanks for the replies chaps:

 

It is not the o-ring, it took me a while to find it but it is there.

 

Rob, it is a Hawke Sport 3-9x40.

 

I took the rifle back to the gunsmiths and he had a look over it for me. He crono'd it and it consistantly produced 11.8 ft/lbs ( I believe he said).

 

I noticed that the fore stock was loose last night, so I tightened it I don't know if that has made any difference, unfortunately it was quite windy here today so I couldn't zero it properly.

 

One thing that he did say was not to be stupid and buy the HW97 as I'd regret it.

[roblade]

from what you have said i would be willing to bet its the scope at fault.

 

have heard a lot of people where the hawke scope s loose zero but havent heard too many problems with the S200.

 

try another scope on it (hopefully as high quality as you can afford) and see if that cures the problem.

 

as the the HW97 being a lesser rifle, no it is not, but it does take a lot more skill to be able to shoot one accuratly, at the club i got to with about 30 members pone myself and one other member shoot only with a springer.

 

ROB

[Jon-Boy]

If the foregrip is loose, you could be moving the barrel as they are attached to one another. Get it tightened!

[BountyHunter]

I tightened the bolts by about three turns, haven't been able to try the zero 'cos it has been quite windy down here.

 

BH

[jim38curl]

try another scope on it (hopefully as high quality as you can afford) and see if that cures the problem.

I reckon you should try Robs idea out. Process of elimination. If you can't afford to buy another one try to borrow one from someone, even if only for a couple of hours.

[deadeye ive]

BH

Check everythings tight ...........Not overtight!!!!!!!........Only you can assess this.

 

 

 

Have you got access to a black & decker workmate.............If so place one on a firm surface lock your gun down in this or something similar SO NOTHING CAN MOVE and with a target at 10m zero on a low mag then change to high mag and observe if there are any obvious changes.............Repeat at 25m.........A good cheap replacment would be a Simmons Deerfield

 

You don't say what pellet.........If it's Air Arms Hunter (pointed) ........their utter rubbish and DO perform eratically .............Switch to Air Arms Field (Domed).

 

How many shots were fired during Chronographing??:lol:.Every PCP is unique with it's own characteristics and its not uncommon for a PCP to behave different after the Air has been re-charged to when 20-30 shots have been fired which will put it in it's sweet zone.........After re-filling some take more time than others to settle down.

 

You don't use a silencer at the mo..........therefore the crown is exposed ......I'm not saying the silencer is there to protect the end as well as diffuse the noise but a damaged crown is detro mental to accuracy of any gun...........As air is the propellant the fact it is being diffused at the muzzle can only aid accuracy so i strongly advise you to fit a moderator ASAP.

 

And lastly

 

You say you saw a pellet bouncing off a rabbits head ............What range was this shot???.............Was it taken under lamp conditions???...........

 

You got me on this one BH

 

Good Luck

 

Ive

[BountyHunter]

So many questions!

 

OK:

 

Pellets - I have tried a variety, the best for accuracy so far has been BSA Storm which I now use regularly, however my trip to the 'smiths saw me leave with a tin of AA Field, as I say it has been too windy to get any zeroing done.

 

He only fired a few shots, three I think. I always charge to 170 as it seems to perform better between this figure and about 30 shots later, that is to say over 170 and after 30 shots it is really unpredictable.

 

Moderator - is the next thing on my list, I am putting my FAC app i at the mo so my "pocket money" has gone on that and briding the Referees... (joke!)

 

The bouncing pellet was interesting to say the least, bearing in mind that during zeroing (35yds) the gun was embedding the pellets in 12mm marine ply, the rabbit shot was taken a little under the zero, 28 - 33 yds in daylight. I was able to track the pellet through the scope, the beauty of a recoiless gun. I had recently charged the gun and taken 10 maybe 20 shots at targets.

 

I will bet that he went home and asked Mrs Coney for a Neurofen.

[SNAKEBITE]

yOU WILL NOT GO TOO FAR WRONG With the AA fields.

 

As was said before going TOO tight can make a difference. I have heard that tighting the bolt too much on the stock/ action can cause it to go out of kilter.

 

Just one last thing I remember hearing something about the barrels coming off the S200. Cannot remember exact details (I THINK it was on the reviews website that people on here use) but might be worth eliminating.

[deadeye ive]

So many questions!

 

OK:

 

Pellets - I have tried a variety, the best for accuracy so far has been BSA Storm which I now use regularly, however my trip to the 'smiths saw me leave with a tin of AA Field, as I say it has been too windy to get any zeroing done.

 

He only fired a few shots, three I think. I always charge to 170 as it seems to perform better between this figure and about 30 shots later, that is to say over 170 and after 30 shots it is really unpredictable.

 

Moderator - is the next thing on my list, I am putting my FAC app i at the mo so my "pocket money" has gone on that and briding the Referees... (joke!)

 

The bouncing pellet was interesting to say the least, bearing in mind that during zeroing (35yds) the gun was embedding the pellets in 12mm marine ply, the rabbit shot was taken a little under the zero, 28 - 33 yds in daylight. I was able to track the pellet through the scope, the beauty of a recoiless gun. I had recently charged the gun and taken 10 maybe 20 shots at targets.

 

I will bet that he went home and asked Mrs Coney for a Neurofen.

Only trying to help BH

 

Does the gun become really unpredictable with an 190 bar charge??(Sticky key )

 

My pcp had the Air regulating valve go on it but that was after a year and 20 or so shots on a decent quality chrono identified this mate ...Air Arms fixed and serviced the gun and it is better than ever now

 

Give the locking down method a go.

 

Do you live near the John Fowler site ?............if so that place is teeming with rabbits doing all sorts of damage.My family and I were there year before last and you could'nt move for the things.An out of Holiday season cull is definately required.

 

Ive

[roblade]

Just one last thing I remember hearing something about the barrels coming off the S200.

have never heard of this problem before, meybe someone had tried to "fix" thier rifle?

 

only problem i have heard and seen with the the S200 is the cocking mechanism breaking, but thats normaly down to being a bit too heavy handed with it, the MK2 is not quiet as good as the original MK1.

 

ROB

 

ps try the AA pellets and if that dosnt help, try to swap a scope on it. sometimes it the simple things that make the biggest difference

[BountyHunter]

Hey Ive - no worries, I am happy for the input - perhaps I should have put a smiley after "So many questions!"

 

It is worse after a full charge but levels out at 170.

 

I think that the scope is to blame, I shall clamp it down as suggested!

 

 

You mean the JF site at Penzance, Hayle or St Ives? I am about 10ish miles from either, I don't know if they have a closed season as such but I am going to find out! Thanks for the tip!

 

BH

[roblade]

You mean the JF site at Penzance, Hayle or St Ives? I am about 10ish miles from either, I don't know if they have a closed season as such but I am going to find out! Thanks for the tip!

 

BH

if its a caravan holiday park, with static caravans, most sitesa i think by law must close for a few weeks, due to the laws about not being able to live in a caravan 12 monbths of the year. Most sites close end of january until start of march or there abouts. During this time van owners are not allowed to say at the van but they are permited to security check them (some sites turn a blind eye to sleeping in them).

 

hope this helps you out

 

ROB