Springer - Two small issues

[JONO]

Dear all,

 

My 3 year old, Ollie, is doing really well after 7 months fairly intensive training but there are two niggles I'd like to iron out...

 

Retrieves - Losing the mark

 

He's recently taken to over-running the mark or taking the wrong line despite beiong thrown in full view. I've since worked out that he's looking at me for the command and only when I throw the dummy from directly behind him does he make a bee-line for the retrieve.

 

Anything I can do to smarten him up and remember where it falls whilst still waiting for the command?

 

Pulling on in the field

 

He's now been on two shoots and coming along nicely but has taken, as probably most dogs do, to scenting in the hunt and going outside of my 20-30yard comfort "in shot" zone during drives. He's not heading off into the next parish or anything but 50 yards in rough cover is simply unacceptable and I feel that clipping him when he does recall to the whistle is wrong.

 

I've tried with admittedly some success using the stop whistle and then the recall but, again, its not ideal or tidy enough. In training I usually get gruff and hurry after him in more open terrain/woodland when he pulls on but its difficult to maintain whilst beating.

 

Any suggestions from those experiencing similar problems?

 

Thanks

 

Jon

Edited November 29, 2005 by JONO

[lurcherboy]

Re the retrieve, are you two side by side, you running your hand down his head and pointing in front of his snout?

 

I was put straight on this one by NTTF I diddn't realise I was making a mistake and the dog had no idea of direction :thumbs:

 

Pulling in the field, cant help you but NTTF can

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[new to the flock]

Jonno please eloborate of the marking. By this I mean tell what YOU do for the mark. DO you send him with a hand? If so which hand. Is he in a sitting position? If so on which side of you, where is his head or foreleg in comparison to your leg.

 

Also please let me know in the quartering while shooting do you let him get to 50 yards and then blow the whistle? Does he respond to the whistle immediatly etc.

 

 

NTTF

[JONO]

Thanks guys,

 

Marking - I used to be able to throw the dummy, see it land and just say "fetch" to the dog and he'd go for it straight away. I sometimes cast him off by hand... but generally have no specific or regular stance or position...it could be a consistency issue I s'pose .

 

Regarding the recall/pulling on - He's being inconsistent/trying his luck/not hearing me from the blood rushing to his head whilst on scent. I've been trying to keep him to 20 yards max but finding it difficult in rough cover.

 

Yesterday was the same - out beating and him not coming smartly back enough to the recall/turn whistle. I improved things slightly with the stop whistle followed by the recall and then moved on with more improvement in getting after him and dragging him back to the point where I whistled and he ignored.

 

Yet final drive he seemed fine and but towards the end he managed to peg and grab a pheasant (retrieved) despite my stop and recall.

 

When out training he's fine on the recall and it seems that its just on live game where the beligerent little b*gger is getting ahead of himself.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Jon

[darren m]

Thanks guys,

 

Marking - I used to be able to throw the dummy, see it land and just say "fetch" to the dog and he'd go for it straight away. I sometimes cast him off by hand... but generally have no specific or regular stance or position...it could be a consistency issue I s'pose .

 

"Regarding the recall/pulling on - He's being inconsistent/trying his luck/not hearing me from the blood rushing to his head whilst on scent. I've been trying to keep him to 20 yards max but finding it difficult in rough cover."

 

Yesterday was the same - out beating and him not coming smartly back enough to the recall/turn whistle. I improved things slightly with the stop whistle followed by the recall and then moved on with more improvement in getting after him and dragging him back to the point where I whistled and he ignored.

 

Yet final drive he seemed fine and but towards the end he managed to peg and grab a pheasant (retrieved) despite my stop and recall.

 

"When out training he's fine on the recall and it seems that its just on live game where the beligerent little b*gger is getting ahead of himself."

 

Hope this helps...

 

Jon

this sounds familiar, i,m glad to hear its not just me with that problem , NTTF adviced me to use a drag line and collar , and guess what its starting to work , but its like you said Jonno , when hes on scent of live game , he goes out to 50 sometimes 100 yards on the scent .

[new to the flock]

Jono

 

I am still playing with this jono...I will put something up for you soon.

 

NTTF

[new to the flock]

Jono:

 

Marking issue:

 

It is my feeling that the dog is loosing the mark of the dummy as he is looking at you for a release command.

 

There are two thing here that we need to do.

 

First:

Dont make the dog sit on every retrieve. Some of this has to be fun with no control. Loosen him back up a bit by just going out with a dummy and throwing a dozen fun retrieves. By this I mean get him excited by twirlling the dummy around and asking him if he wants it. Now just fire the dummy no sitting no waiting just let it go, I usually say go get it as it leaves my hand. This is to get him happy and thinking for himself once again.

 

Second:

 

After a dozen or so fun retrieves do a formal retrieve with him sitting beside you. Tell him to stay, throw the dummy> Once it has landed, Line him to the mark using your LEFT hand down beside his head. This will get him to continue to look at the mark and not up at you for a command. When you release him for the retrieve, give your command.

 

 

Remember to mix in some fun retrieves as well.....

 

All work and NO Play makes for a very boared dog.

 

 

Quartering:

 

I am going to suggest you work him on a drag line the same as Darren m is doing. However in your case as it sounds as though your dog has some quartering training in place, I am going to suggest that you run a dragged scent line in conjuntion with it.

 

Lay down your scent lines using commercial scent on a cloth tied to a twine. Make sure you run the line not only inside the boundary that you want to work but also out past the distance that you want him to go. Now you will be able to start the quartering, on the long line, if he does not turn as soon as you pip on the whistle, give a pop on the long line to correct him, this way you are correcting as soon as he makes the mistake.

 

If you can I would also set some training birds inside the training area that he will come across and flush....2 or 3 per session would be good.....as a reward an to reinforce the sit to flush. Again ferel pigeons work good for this.

 

Hope this Helps, let me know how you get on.

 

NTTF

[RAR]

Hi all,

I have had similar problems with Cocker Bitches in the past. However, the dogs were younger and i was not using them in the field as i had other dogs available for shooting at the time. So i understand your dilema.

One important piece of advice, is that not to put the dog in a position to be 'naughty' and solve the problem out of the pressure situation of perhaps near to the end of a drive.

You are expecting the dog to do it so he is obliging.

 

As far as the retreiving goes the problem i had, was the little bitches were of the 'I love you Daddy' type and did not want to take their eyes off me. Every retreive was a blind.

Use sound to help. I cut up 5 large commercial 25 ltre cooking oil containers and

placed them around the training area.

Throw the dummy against the tin sheets making them look at the area of the fall.

A helper can do this, or at first use close retrieves. You soon get good at hiting the target and if you miss the first time send another one and get the other later.

 

You did not say if you were using a starter pistol ?

This puts the sound dimension in the training and if you put a 22 adapter in a shotgun and then have the gun pointing at the fall the dog will learn to look at the fall area. If in trial it is great if one of your guns misses all the time with the first barrell and is a crack shot with the second the dog will learn to look at the sound and then the direction.

 

If the dog is overshooting, try for a while to only give retreives into the wind so the dog will combine sight and scent. Then go across the wind by throwing the dummy into the hedge upwind off an obvious path and send him down the path.

If the dog is pulling you on your beat work, him for a while only into the wind and keep control. Then go at 45 degrees to the wind and stop him pulling. I find a sugar beet field the best for this.

You need to see the dog and keep him honest.

 

Yours in our great sport

Rob

[JONO]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

The only time he pulls on ahead is in rough cover... bushy woodland and thicket undergrowth etc...not when we're in the open where I can keep him to 10 yards and quartering well, without really using the whistle.

 

A drag line would be an almighty pain in the **** to use in rough cover (imagine a rather painful and thorny conga line!)...any further suggestions other than working him into wind and keeping in sight/keeping him honest (sounds like the ticket tbh)?

 

The retrieve stuff I'll certainly have a crack at - I've trained him to sit the moment he sees the dummy soaring overhead so there's some fun for both of us to be had.

 

Cheers again

 

Jon