wildfowler.250 Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 I'm just looking for opinions really. Im currently using a cz hmr and it's fine. But it's only fine and I was wondering what people on here make of the other HMRs on offer? I like the finnfire .22, but I hear that the quad isn't nearly as good? Anschutz I've never had but havn't heard any complaints from owners. And weihrauch was the other one,(I like the trigger on the HW77K airgun so if it's similar that would be a good start ). My other thoughts were .22 hornet or something that's as flat as a pancake to shoot for vermin? Already have a .223 mainly for roe so im filling a 'gap' (:unsure:) between that and the .22 really. Only problem is I don't reload. Wouldn't mind starting but that's a whole learning curve and sheckles to go with it. So really it comes down to if there's a worthwhile difference in build quality and accauracy in getting a nicer HMR. Or is the .17 CF (or similar) calibers worth looking at or a waste of time with the .223 already in hand? I don't really want to go lighter than 50 grain in the .223 because that's the day every roe in the county will be out for a walk The sane thing could be just to stick to the cz 17 but it's nice to hear other peoples views first Lastly, how do the 14 inch barreled HMRs shoot? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 I'm just looking for opinions really. Im currently using a cz hmr and it's fine. But it's only fine and I was wondering what people on here make of the other HMRs on offer? I like the finnfire .22, but I hear that the quad isn't nearly as good? Anschutz I've never had but havn't heard any complaints from owners. And weihrauch was the other one,(I like the trigger on the HW77K airgun so if it's similar that would be a good start ). My other thoughts were .22 hornet or something that's as flat as a pancake to shoot for vermin? Already have a .223 mainly for roe so im filling a 'gap' (:unsure:) between that and the .22 really. Only problem is I don't reload. Wouldn't mind starting but that's a whole learning curve and sheckles to go with it. So really it comes down to if there's a worthwhile difference in build quality and accauracy in getting a nicer HMR. Or is the .17 CF (or similar) calibers worth looking at or a waste of time with the .223 already in hand? I don't really want to go lighter than 50 grain in the .223 because that's the day every roe in the county will be out for a walk The sane thing could be just to stick to the cz 17 but it's nice to hear other peoples views first Lastly, how do the 14 inch barreled HMRs shoot? Cheers! Build quality "may" be better on a couple of other .17HMR but the CZ is superb in just about every respect, and you will only notice at best a fraction of a mm better accuracy from the likes of an Anschutz, it just isn't worth it in the accuracy department. My only thought on your CZ HMR if you are not happy with it is that something is wrong somewhere, VERY unusual for a CZ but always possible! Personally I'd say don't go less than 16" on a HMR but I understand some do! If the HMR is simply not up to the job (what is the job?) consider a .22WMR, Hornet or bigger, in all cases a lot more grunt than a HMR! ATB!! PS. the Finnfire Hunter is a Calssic in my view and I would take one any day over any version of the Quad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted May 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Thanks for the reply There's nothing wrong with the CZ at all, just fancied something more refined :unsure: I understand that the likes of the .17AH is pretty flat out to 200 yards? It's really just my 2nd vermin gun. The .22 is fine for picking off rabbits while your waiting near a Warren or lamping. I just thought that for longer shooting something different would be interesting. What does everyone else on here use? .204 ruger? .221 fireball? Hornet seems to be on the up What's the tragectory of the hornet like? Although not always necessary, more grunt is always reassuring to have! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Thanks for the reply There's nothing wrong with the CZ at all, just fancied something more refined :unsure: I understand that the likes of the .17AH is pretty flat out to 200 yards? It's really just my 2nd vermin gun. The .22 is fine for picking off rabbits while your waiting near a Warren or lamping. I just thought that for longer shooting something different would be interesting. What does everyone else on here use? .204 ruger? .221 fireball? Hornet seems to be on the up What's the tragectory of the hornet like? Although not always necessary, more grunt is always reassuring to have! ATB! Anschutz...the wood is nice, build and accuracy is good, the bolt is interesting compared to the CZ but it is a good make! I'm struggling a bit and I'm getting drawn to the conclusion you are actually after a bit more than a HMR rather than a "better" HMR!! I look at calibres in a very simplistic way as I have a job to do, Wildcats or Oddball calibres do not do it for me, I need common varieties, easy ammo find and lots of ammo choice... ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted May 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Well I can't decide.. If the extra money in the HMR terms only gets you a minor improvment in accauracy then there isn't much point in changing guns. However, I may be inclined to change the calibers for something further reaching and flat shooting,(but still really a rabbit crow possible fox gun). I use the .223 at the moment as larger deer aren't in season-it's not really my vermin gun as I'm shooting factory ammo at present and it's too spensif There's no other users on here that use anything different from .223/.222/.22-250? Cheers :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 I use a .17AH. It's a brilliant round but the reloading side of it can be a right pain! No factory ammo is available so you'd better be keen to learn about reloading before you go there! The rifles cost a fortune too and if it wasn't for the second hand market I couldn't have done it. The trouble is second hand .17AHs are as rare as rocking horse poo! I used to have a .22 Hornet. Trajectory wise they're very similar to the HMR but can take Fox at the ranges a HMR can do Rabbits. It's not a long range calibre and my best shot on a bunny was 250 yards. A Fox would need to be inside 200 ideally. Both Hornets are a lot milder than the .223. I had one but found it too much gun for the shooting I do. I rarely get the chance to push out past 200 yards so I had no need to burn all that extra powder. Two rounds worth of powder for a .223 will fill five Hornet cases. In my .17 Ackley I'm currently using 9 (yes 9) grains of powder! My .223 used 25. Personally I think .204 is a bit pointless. It's not a small case so still uses quite a bit of powder and has no real advantage over a .223 that I can see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 If you want more range than HMR then Hornet is not for you, its range is similar but it stil has a thump when it gets there. 17 fireball might be fun, or 204. 204 needs long barrel mind, to get good velocity. That said, all need reloading, so maybe get reloading kit and reload your 223? It's a new challenge all on its own - not difficult, but you can spend hours playing if you want to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted May 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 I use a .17AH. It's a brilliant round but the reloading side of it can be a right pain! No factory ammo is available so you'd better be keen to learn about reloading before you go there! The rifles cost a fortune too and if it wasn't for the second hand market I couldn't have done it. The trouble is second hand .17AHs are as rare as rocking horse poo! I used to have a .22 Hornet. Trajectory wise they're very similar to the HMR but can take Fox at the ranges a HMR can do Rabbits. It's not a long range calibre and my best shot on a bunny was 250 yards. A Fox would need to be inside 200 ideally. Both Hornets are a lot milder than the .223. I had one but found it too much gun for the shooting I do. I rarely get the chance to push out past 200 yards so I had no need to burn all that extra powder. Two rounds worth of powder for a .223 will fill five Hornet cases. In my .17 Ackley I'm currently using 9 (yes 9) grains of powder! My .223 used 25. Personally I think .204 is a bit pointless. It's not a small case so still uses quite a bit of powder and has no real advantage over a .223 that I can see? thanks for that! Although the price factor you mention tends to make me think that the 17AH isn't really an option so with a hornet I'd still have a bit of drop to contend with past 120 odd yards? And just more thump when the bullet arrived? If you want more range than HMR then Hornet is not for you, its range is similar but it stil has a thump when it gets there. 17 fireball might be fun, or 204. 204 needs long barrel mind, to get good velocity. That said, all need reloading, so maybe get reloading kit and reload your 223? It's a new challenge all on its own - not difficult, but you can spend hours playing if you want to! that might be the best idea! I fancy loading some 50 grain soft points for it and see how she shoots the ideal in between could be .222 with 50 grain bullets once i have got the nack of reloading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 A bit of sales pitch for you 22k hornet 35grain Vmaz 3150fps you can see the gun and groups on the for sale forum would be open to offers shoots factory ammo also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 my issue in your situation about buying a hornet is yes they pack more punch but to me its not a fox gun and its not a rabbit gun in the truest senses, you've a .223 which is a far better foxing weapon and you have a .22lr for rabbits. What the HMR does well is shoot very flat and put down small vermin very well. So really to my mind there isn't a gap to fill, if you look at the fact you are looking at small deer species as well when out with it then you have the same dilema over using the smaller calibers as to reloading lighter bullets they won't be deer legal. Personally as has been said start reloading and shoot more with the .223 before buying another smaller centrefire IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 A bit of sales pitch for you 22k hornet 35grain Vmaz 3150fps you can see the gun and groups on the for sale forum would be open to offers shoots factory ammo also thanks for the offer but I don't have a free slot as yet,(and I'll probably just focus on the .223 as people have suggested ). What's the K part exactly? Does it allow a larger case capacity or something? my issue in your situation about buying a hornet is yes they pack more punch but to me its not a fox gun and its not a rabbit gun in the truest senses, you've a .223 which is a far better foxing weapon and you have a .22lr for rabbits. What the HMR does well is shoot very flat and put down small vermin very well. So really to my mind there isn't a gap to fill, if you look at the fact you are looking at small deer species as well when out with it then you have the same dilema over using the smaller calibers as to reloading lighter bullets they won't be deer legal. Personally as has been said start reloading and shoot more with the .223 before buying another smaller centrefire IMHO I think that's wise words tbh! At least that should get me reloading on an easier caliber I was wondering along the 20br, 20 ppc, tac lines as a good HMR replacement in the future; anyone on here shoot one? Or have any thought on them? ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Check out the Savage range of .17 HMR rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner4hire Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 you already have a good replacement for the HMR in the 223. I sold my HMR as I found it disapointing and looked at getting a .17 centrefire but left it in the end as I have a 20TAC that does exactly the same job as the HMR and 17's, just better imo. 20BR and PPC will need you to put some serious time into reloading, although I think that they are both excellent. 20TAC, Prac and Vartarg have to be reloaded too, although are easier (20TAC especially with Lapua brass). Only the 204r has factory stuff. I dont think you will benefit in anyway by getting a .17 or .20 to go with your .223 they are too close. To get the best out of them you will also need to reload. If you 'must' have one (I go through stages like that!!) then look at the .17 Fireball too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Thanks for the reply! I think I would be most likely to swap the .17 for the 20 tac and possibly the .223 aswell what's the tragectory from it like anyway? I hear it's a very accaurate round :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner4hire Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 roughly... a 40gr vmax @ 3900 fps Zero - 100 200 - 1" 300 - 6" 400 - 15" Mine shoots 1/2 moa at 300 yrds with a soft load. very good info on all the 20's here: http://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html and a good 20tac review here: http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/340116/20...bre_review.html In all honesty it does nothing more than a 223 which you can also take deer with.... but I have larger rounds for deer (6 and 7mm) so as a med range rabbit/bird/fox buster its fantastic and a bit different!! Also as nobody produces factory rifles in 20tac you'll need to have a new barrel chambered, which will probably set you back £500+ If you are close to the west mids you are welcome to come and fire a few rounds with mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 roughly... a 40gr vmax @ 3900 fps Zero - 100 200 - 1" 300 - 6" 400 - 15" Mine shoots 1/2 moa at 300 yrds with a soft load. very good info on all the 20's here: http://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html and a good 20tac review here: http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/340116/20...bre_review.html In all honesty it does nothing more than a 223 which you can also take deer with.... but I have larger rounds for deer (6 and 7mm) so as a med range rabbit/bird/fox buster its fantastic and a bit different!! Also as nobody produces factory rifles in 20tac you'll need to have a new barrel chambered, which will probably set you back £500+ If you are close to the west mids you are welcome to come and fire a few rounds with mine... Thank you very much for the kind offer unfortunately im up in Scotland! That sounds seriously accaurate! I was wondering, (not sure if it's possible though) if you could take say an older sako or similar in say .222 (which everyone seems to dislike ATM ) and have it rebarreled and rechambered in 20 tac? I'm starting to get project ideas now . Would it possible (purely out of interest) to make a roe legal round of 50 grains and X velocity ect? Thanks for the input and I'll give the links a read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 what you really need to work out is what you want to do with it, I like my HMR and it has certain perks and I'm even convincing an avid doubter of them of its use, the more he uses it the more he wants one We were out last night small field lots of rabbits and popped a few while looking for fox, then popped a magpie and had foxy come out my side it would have got the HMR rather than .223. It is a useable gun in pretty small areas we had horses 50 yards away and they didn't bat an eyelid and its a pretty accurate round as well as packing a punch the rabbits heads were frankly mush. You can use it with minimal fear of ricochets which is why we had it with us, now whatever you swap it for you are increasing the power significantly and though you are talking very accurate guns over long range you cannot use them often in places where you can use an HMR. Personally for my kind of shooting its a definite keeper, Of course with your dilema you could keep it and swap the .223 for something bigger that will still do foxes but let you take on bigger deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bigger Deer and Foxes are for the .270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 ah if you've one of them and are just after a varmint round still chop the .223 in for a 20tac if you really want a change and don't worry about deer with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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