Batmancaver Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I have recently bought a BSA Lightning XL in .177. Knowing that some rifles can be pellet fussy I purchased a pellet sample pack from Pellpax. Overall I am very happy with the rifle. I have run about a thousand pellets through the barrel to get it 'run in' and then I went onto testing the pellets. After running them through the rifle and checking readouts with a chrono I am amazed with the power output. This ranges from about 5lb upwards. The worrying thing is that with one batch of pellets the average power was 12.09lb, in other words FAC! And no I don't hold an FAC, that is why it is worrying! ! ! ! ! Is this normal? What should I do? Hope someone out there can help with some advice. Cheers Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 A 7lb spread seems a little steep! I would get a 'smith to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 sounds about right to me depending on what pellets your using a super heavy weight will bring the power down considerably where as a super light weight will push the power up a good bit. Done forget the springers are the exact opposite of PCP rifles when it comes to pellet weights and power levels (PCP like heavy pellets to push power up) If you give us more details about what pellets your using and more importantly what the variation is over 10-20 shots with the most accurate pellets. Pellet testing isnt about now much power you can get from a rifle but about how accurate you can get with the pellets. ROB PS stick with AA Field, or jsb exacts or daystate FT or webley lazadomes (they are basicaly all the same pellet! all meade by JSB) or if you want you could try accupell LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Thanks for responding. I'll try and post the full results when I get back home tonight. I've got them all saved in an Excel worksheet so they may copy across. I agree with you Roblade. I was running pellet trials to ascertain which type gave me the best groupings. It appears to be Datstate 4.5mm 8.49g (9mm grouping) as opposed to Prometheus (4.5mm 6g) or SMK (4.5mm 7.9g) both 50mm groups . This was at 15m range (the length of my garden). This being my first serious air-rifle I was concerned about the power range and about what I should do about it. Will be back later. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 what pellets were they that were giving the highest power output? its been a while since i have chornoed a new spring powered rifle but most of the new PCP rifles are pushing the daystate pellets out around 10.5F/lbs with bisley magnums pushing up to around 11.8. I wouldnt worry too much about the power level, I know technicaly it does make it an FAC rifle but the chances of you being stoped are pretty clim and even slimer chances of having your rifle taken away to be chorned, the chances of your rifle being tested with the pellets that put your rifle are almost so small as be near imposible to calculate. Oh and if your using a CB125 i would sujest you take it to a gun shop and have them put it over a chrono for you if your at all worried about power level, then you could get it in writing from them a) the pellets you use and the power recorded using those pellets. as the little CB125 are great for rough power levels but they are by no means the most accurate. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I wouldnt worry too much about the power level, I know technicaly it does make it an FAC rifle but the chances of you being stoped are pretty clim and even slimer chances of having your rifle taken away to be chorned, the chances of your rifle being tested with the pellets that put your rifle are almost so small as be near imposible to calculate. Oh and if your using a CB125 i would sujest you take it to a gun shop and have them put it over a chrono for you if your at all worried about power level, then you could get it in writing from them a) the pellets you use and the power recorded using those pellets. as the little CB125 are great for rough power levels but they are by no means the most accurate. ROB Not being funny but this is not the sort of info to be giving out on an open forum! It MIGHT go on behind closed doors but illegal is still illegal. As for getting the gunshop to "testify" the power it will mean squat if it comes on top. Like an M.O.T. for a car, all it means is that AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME all was well. 100yds down the road or a week later with the rifle anything could have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi, The power range for the tests was from 4.79lb for Bisley Magnums to 12.09lb for H&N Hollowpoints. Tests were carried out with my BSA Lightning XL, after 1000 pellets run through the barrel, and readings were taken with a Combro CB-625 chronograph (brand new). I used 8 shot groupings and the chronograph produced fairly consistant results for each shot. All but one shot with the H&N pellets was over 12lb, so I am a bit concerned if the police did stop me what would happen. Incidently I have been stopped by th police in the past, not for doing anything illegal, just that some of my previous shooting area passed near a footpath and someone complained. I never actually shot near or over the path and the police were happy with my reasonings, however, as they were simple normal officers they insisted on taking my rifle away to get it checked out by their firearms branch. They were actually very nice and returned it within the hour, but I am a bit concerned about that happening again with a rifle I know might go over the levels a bit! The power differences do not seem to have anything to do with weight of pellet alone, obviously style, size and their barrel fit play a part, but does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do? Additionally, if anyone wants to see the full results then does anyone know whether it is possible to post an Excel spreadsheet on here? Any advice on what may have caused this and what I should do will be gratefully received. Cheers Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlee Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 12.09ft/lb is so little over the limit, that it is not worth worrying about, especially as you tested it with a Combro chrono. As has been said, they are not the most accurate of chronos, they just give you an idea.Take your gun to a shop who have a chrono, and let them test it for you on a decent chrono, then if it is over power, get it adjusted, but TBH, I dont think it will be over - the std. Lightning averages around 10ft/lb, so to go up 2ft/lbs would be difficult with std. parts inside. As for best pellet, I've found Air Arms Diablo Fields to be the best for my .177, I think it was the 4.52 version that was far better then the 4.51 version, though it could have been the other way round, but the 4.52 does ring a bell about being the best for the gun. Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley61 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 When your local Police Force tested it, they must have given you a receipt or something to say they had tested it. The fact they gave it back to you means they were happy with it. Unless you've fiddled with it I don't see any problem. Just shoot with it and enjoy Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 When your local Police Force tested it, they must have given you a receipt or something to say they had tested it.The fact they gave it back to you means they were happy with it. Unless you've fiddled with it I don't see any problem. Just shoot with it and enjoy Cheers, Dave Read the post this is a new gun not the one the police checked B) :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley61 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 DOH!!! :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffygun Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 It sounds like this gun may need a strip and re-lube. Any rifle shooting over 12ft/lbs is illegal and you should be worried about it. The fact that it may be a small chance the police will take it and get it checked is enough. Upto 5 years for illegal possession of a firearm.... .09 over the limit or 5ft/lbs over the limit doesn't matter, worth considering. :*) :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) This MAY sound daft BUT Have you been changing the Pellet weight on the chrono before testing? If you don't change the weight you will get wrong readings There is a big differenct between a 10.6 grain and 7.3 grain pellet in BC If the Chrono is set up for say a 14 grain .22 pellet that will be why your going over the 12FPE Weigh your pellet of ASK the gunshop what weight they are and enter the weight into you Chrono Failing that use Chairgun enter the Weight the cal the BC and the muzzle velocity of your test and it will calculate your FPE rating for you Lord Geordie Edited January 31, 2006 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Thanks for all the responses. I think I will be better off running it down to my local gunsmith and getting him to run it through his chrono and see what the results are. Thanks for the comments on querying whether I had changed the pellet weight from Lord Geordie. Yes I did ensure that I did that for every batch and H&N Hollows still registered as FAC. :< I also checked my readings against Extorians calculator and they still come out as FAC. :< :< I also used the weights and the pellet velocity and calculated gun power on Excel and still FAC. :< :< :< However, its a point worth mentioning as I am sure that that would be a mistake that others have made at some stage. Thanks for the replies, and next time a see you all I will buy you a Only the one mind, you will have to share B) Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Okay, I'm determined to get to the bottom of this, and I hopefully have found the problem. What weight are H&N Hollowpoints? According to Extorians website they are 8.6 grains According to Pellpax they are 8.6 grains According to Chairgun they are 7.1 grains. 8.6 grains and an average velocity of 795.6 give a power of 12.09 ft lb However, 7.1 grains gives a power of 9.967 ft lb Does anyone know what the correct weight should be? Cheers Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Carl i NEVER take weights as gospel when refering to other sites i ALWAYS weigh my own. You can get a half decent set of digi scales from ebay for a modest fee and they will be more than good enough for what you require. Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 I was just goig to type out about the importance of putting the pellet on the scales yourself when your sailing that close to the wind. so a couple of variables there that could possbly be contributing to the situation 1) using CB125 2) un weighed pellets this is by no means gospel, but i have no worries about any rifles that are used at the club, as long as they are withiin the limit using jsb's (aa field, daystate ft, webley lazadomes) im happy for the rifle to be used on the club property. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 i had a lightning xl and never had any problems with it i used accupels and it fired lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hi Well I have weighed the last few pellets, although not sure how accurate my scales are but if need be I'll find a digi set on ebay. Now that I have got their weight in grammes, how do I convert this into grains? Cheers Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Grams to grain isn't gonna be accurate enough you could still be a grain or so out. Best to buy a half decent set of digi ones mate and make sure they measure in grains As i say next time you buy a tin from your retailer HE should have a book on weights i know mine does. Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Dont they have the weight on the tin. If you want i have a mag with most pellets listed and i think it gives the weight as well i will try to hunt it out if thats any help. (cannot promise to find but will try ) Just let me know if you need it ? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Dont they have the weight on the tin. If you want i have a mag with most pellets listed and i think it gives the weight as well i will try to hunt it out if thats any help. (cannot promise to find but will try ) Just let me know if you need it ???? hawkeye you need to read the rest of the post, published pellet weights need to be double checked due to differences, this could be as much as 0.5 of a grain which would make a huge difference to power levels. Normaly this wouldnt be a problem but in this case the rifle is showing over the limit by 0.09 which makes the rifle FAC to double check this the guy wants to weigh the pellets he is using with his rifle before he takes it to the local gun shop and has it checked there, presumably at a price. ROB PS google search "conversion grams grains" shoudl turn up the info you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 if you have a samsung d500 then they have a converter on them. mine tells me that 1gram=15.432grains and it seems to tally up. if you get the diggi scales it won't matter but it's worth knowing. spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmancaver Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hi Guys Just ordered a digi scale from Ebay for only 95p!!! Shame about the £8 postage from the US but still cheaper than some of the ones for sale from the UK with cheaper postage. Once it arrives I'll weigh the pellets and update you on the power situation. Thanks for all the helpful advice. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 There's enough chavvies around here that have digi scales, and not for measuring pellets! I might ask them to weigh a few for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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