Moderator Question

[Katash]

I purchaced my first FAC rifle yesterday (22LR) part of the deal was a SAK suppressor was included, however the dealer has not written this on my ticket nor the letter he generated for me to send to the firearms dept.

 

Question is are SAK moderators supposed to be on ticket (there is no serial number but there are proof marks) and should I modify the letter to include a statement saying I have a moderator.

 

Should I write on my ticket anything? I heard you shouldnt write on your own ticket.

 

Thanks.

[Hornet 6]

Yes it should be on your ticket, if the mod is proofed you cannot enter it, shop has to do it.

 

Neil.

[markbivvy]

I purchaced my first FAC rifle yesterday (22LR) part of the deal was a SAK suppressor was included, however the dealer has not written this on my ticket nor the letter he generated for me to send to the firearms dept.

go back and ask him to add the mod to your ticket and the paper work.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

I purchaced my first FAC rifle yesterday (22LR) part of the deal was a SAK suppressor was included, however the dealer has not written this on my ticket nor the letter he generated for me to send to the firearms dept.

 

Question is are SAK moderators supposed to be on ticket (there is no serial number but there are proof marks) and should I modify the letter to include a statement saying I have a moderator.

 

Should I write on my ticket anything? I heard you shouldnt write on your own ticket.

 

Thanks.

Some of the more experianced members will understand.

It sounds like the dealer sold you an off ticket air rifle silencer.

Quite legal to own off ticket.

I would go back to the RFD & ask what happened, If the RFD has notified the police but forgot to enter on your ticket you need him to write it on.

if the RFD didn't notify the police because he sold you an air rifle silencer then you still have a spare slot for a mod'.

You can write it on yourself, no make, no seriel number, just state you have an air rifle silencer to use, that then becomes an on ticket silencer.

Or just buy a decent one such a ASE UTRA, DM80 or a Whisper.

Whatever, just make sure you know what the RFD done, If he wrote into the police as far as the're concerned the slot is filled.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Yes it should be on your ticket, if the mod is proofed you cannot enter it, shop has to do it.

 

Neil.

Why not you can buy an air rifle silencer with proof marks.

The proof marks only show FAC proof & they still can be used on a sub 12ftb rifle quite legaly.And in answer to the OP, you can write on your own ticket as long as you have the authority.

Depends what It's about though.

[Katash]

If the RFD has notified the police but forgot to enter on your ticket you need him to write it on.

if the RFD didn't notify the police because he sold you an air rifle silencer then you still have a spare slot for a mod'.

 

At time of purchase I was given a printout generated by the dealer addressed to firearms dept, I was asked to sign and post to address on top (I thought it was dealers responsibility to inform of a sale not customer) .... Anyway the letter makes no mention of the suppressor.

 

Suppressor is marked with 2 official stamps and '.22 WMR'

 

Still confused

[njc110381]

I think the easiest way would be to get the RFD to sort it if he's local. He should have written it on really. I get my mods listed as unknown maker and NVN (no visible serial number). That way if you want to change it later you can just swap it or buy any mod you want "for use on an air rifle" and just swap them over.

 

It may not be the official way to do it but realistically you then have a mod listed and a mod on the gun. Even my head of department hates doing variations for mods and says it's a waste of his time!

[Hornet 6]

Why not you can buy an air rifle silencer with proof marks.

The proof marks only show FAC proof & they still can be used on a sub 12ftb rifle quite legaly.And in answer to the OP, you can write on your own ticket as long as you have the authority.

Depends what It's about though.

 

If it has proof marks it is an FAC only moderator, you cannot legally buy or hold one except on ticket.

What you or your RFD lets you do, or get away with is your/his business, but it is illegal.

Although you are right you can enter an air rifle mod on your ticket, that is a mod that has not been proofed.

I have just been through all this with a couple of local shops and the firearms dept as a mate wants an L.E.I. 17 mod for his .177 air rifle, not going to happen, unless it is possible to get one before it's proof marked.

 

Neil.

[Vermincinerator]

If you have an off ticket moderator as soon as you attach it to a firearm it becomes a regulated part and needs to be licensed, if you get caught by the cops with the mod on your rifle and its not listed on your FAC, you can say good by to your licence mate.

As for signing things onto your licence yourself, this cant be done, with the example of a mod it cannot change from use as a air rifle mod to a FAC rated mod by entering it onto your FAC by yourself it must be entered as a FAC rated moderator by a RFD from the because it has to tracable through the RFDs register.

 

TB.

[Katash]

Ok thanks guys, have ammended the notification form and will visit dealer and ask him to input it on my licence.

[apache]

because it has to tracable through the RFDs register.

How so with no serial number?

[Dekers]

Any mod when attached to a FAC tool becomes FAC and has to be listed on FAC.

[njc110381]

If it has proof marks it is an FAC only moderator, you cannot legally buy or hold one except on ticket.

What you or your RFD lets you do, or get away with is your/his business, but it is illegal.

Although you are right you can enter an air rifle mod on your ticket, that is a mod that has not been proofed.

I have just been through all this with a couple of local shops and the firearms dept as a mate wants an L.E.I. 17 mod for his .177 air rifle, not going to happen, unless it is possible to get one before it's proof marked.

 

Neil.

 

 

Are you really sure about this? A proof is only a test to show a moderator is safe on a certain calibre, it doesn't make the mod an FAC only item around here! Could be a matter of various forces doing things in different ways perhaps but I know of several RFDs in the area who will sell a proofed mod without a FAC for air rifle use and one not so local who actually manufactures them and does the same. With the number they deal with they should know the rules and apart from that all this is done in plain view of the FEO with no problems!

[Vermincinerator]

How so with no serial number?

 

Easy,

Its like an accountant balancing the books, FEO sees from the register that the RFD has sold 12 FAC rated mods

He then sees that none have actually been entered into the register as stock, he then wants to know where the 12 mods came from as RFD is not a manufacturer.

 

Ian.

[Hornet 6]

Are you really sure about this? A proof is only a test to show a moderator is safe on a certain calibre, it doesn't make the mod an FAC only item around here! Could be a matter of various forces doing things in different ways perhaps but I know of several RFDs in the area who will sell a proofed mod without a FAC for air rifle use and one not so local who actually manufactures them and does the same. With the number they deal with they should know the rules and apart from that all this is done in plain view of the FEO with no problems!

 

It's all very simple actually, the RFD orders the mods in, they come proofed so come by carrier, they then have to be entered on the RFD's register, and there is no way to get them off that register other than to enter them on somebody's ticket.

Well actually that isn't true, the RFD could scrap them, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

 

Like i said earlier, you and your RFD can do whatever you like, just don't get caught.

Also you may have an off ticket mod, and permission to acquire and use a mod, but get caught using a mod when you don't have one on ticket, and you will be in a world of pain.

For the FAC holders who have a few rifles and mods on ticket, it all gets a bit easier, after all most mods are described as no serial number and no make, so who is to say which mod you are using.

Doesn't work like that for the OP does it, same as holding more ammo then you should, provided the overflow is not in your ammo safe you aren't likely to get caught, but if it is, and you do, you wave good bye to your ticket.

 

Oh yes, the all forces do it different bit, well they do and they don't, all are guided by the same book of rules, they may see things differently, but will a magistrate, don't bank on it.

 

Neil.

[Dekers]

Are you really sure about this? A proof is only a test to show a moderator is safe on a certain calibre, it doesn't make the mod an FAC only item around here! Could be a matter of various forces doing things in different ways perhaps but I know of several RFDs in the area who will sell a proofed mod without a FAC for air rifle use and one not so local who actually manufactures them and does the same. With the number they deal with they should know the rules and apart from that all this is done in plain view of the FEO with no problems!

 

 

It's all very simple actually, the RFD orders the mods in, they come proofed so come by carrier, they then have to be entered on the RFD's register, and there is no way to get them off that register other than to enter them on somebody's ticket.

Well actually that isn't true, the RFD could scrap them, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

 

Like i said earlier, you and your RFD can do whatever you like, just don't get caught.

Also you may have an off ticket mod, and permission to acquire and use a mod, but get caught using a mod when you don't have one on ticket, and you will be in a world of pain.

For the FAC holders who have a few rifles and mods on ticket, it all gets a bit easier, after all most mods are described as no serial number and no make, so who is to say which mod you are using.

Doesn't work like that for the OP does it, same as holding more ammo then you should, provided the overflow is not in your ammo safe you aren't likely to get caught, but if it is, and you do, you wave good bye to your ticket.

 

Oh yes, the all forces do it different bit, well they do and they don't, all are guided by the same book of rules, they may see things differently, but will a magistrate, don't bank on it.

 

Neil.

 

 

Interesting this, and it's a bit grey to me!

 

There is nothing to stop you buying an air rifle mod and then sending it to Birmingham/London for proof, are you suggesting the act of proofing turns that mod into a firearm and they will not return it to you without seeing your FAC slot?

 

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.

 

As soon as you screw it on a FAC tool, whether it is proofed or not, it becomes a firearm, but I'm not sure about a simple proof.

 

You may well be right, I've not considered this before and don't recall the specific bit of legislation that confirms this.

 

What is the source of your information?

 

Cheers

[njc110381]

you may have an off ticket mod, and permission to acquire and use a mod, but get caught using a mod when you don't have one on ticket, and you will be in a world of pain.

Neil.

 

 

That part I can relate to as when fitted to a firearm the mod does become a seperate part which requires regulation. If I was the OP I certainly wouldn't want to just screw on the mod he has and carry on as he doesn't have one listed. That to me could be quite a big deal? The bit I don't understand is why a proof stamp makes it an FAC only option? I'm with Dekers on this one, I wouldn't mind reading the legal side of it to satisfy my own doubts.

 

Not meaning to sound like I don't believe what you're saying Neil - rather that there are a lot of law based rumours surrounding firearms and it's such a complex subject many aren't all that accurate. Some come from the very top too so just because your FEO says it and maybe your local RFD (who is regulated by the same department as the FEO is) doesn't mean it's true.

 

I've got a copy of the firearms law from beginning to end. I'll get back to you with my opinion in about ten years - the time it would take to read the whole document and the ammendments that come with it!

Edited October 31, 2010 by njc110381

[Hornet 6]

As soon as you screw it on a FAC tool, whether it is proofed or not, it becomes a firearm, but I'm not sure about a simple proof.

 

Correct

 

 

And if not tested on a powder burning fire arm then what did they test it on ?

My info came, as I said earlier from several locals RFD's and the local licensing office.

 

 

Neil.

[Dekers]

And if not tested on a powder burning fire arm then what did they test it on ?

My info came, as I said earlier from several locals RFD's and the local licensing office.

 

 

Neil.

 

 

I take your point but, but, but, but, Proof Houses can do all sorts of things, after all does the bloke who pulls the trigger have a valid personal FAC for every calibre

 

Sorry chap, I have had to educate many a FEO, and RFD comments mean nothing, I remain unconvinced but I see where you are coming from!!

 

Legislation is the key, any idea where it is?

 

Like I said earlier, it's an interesting area and a definitive answer would be useful!

 

Cheers!

[DaveK]

And if not tested on a powder burning fire arm then what did they test it on ?

 

 

Neil.

 

It's quite possible that it wasn't tested at all and just proof stamped. I've known an RFD to have a batch of barrels returned with the proof stamped through the bubble wrap, ergo - barrel not tested.

[Katash]

It's quite possible that it wasn't tested at all and just proof stamped. I've known an RFD to have a batch of barrels returned with the proof stamped through the bubble wrap, ergo - barrel not tested.

 

Defiantly been powder tested, pulled it apart to clean and it had powder residue in.

[DaveK]

Defiantly been powder tested, pulled it apart to clean and it had powder residue in.

 

Second hand then in used condition (worth a punt).

[Katash]

Second hand then in used condition (worth a punt).

 

[njc110381]

A lot of items made on accurate machinery by known manufacturers is batch tested. Kind of makes a mockery of the whole proof system doesn't it?!

 

So.... If it's been proofed in a batch without being actually fired then it's never been fitted to a firearm? Making it ok to hold without an FAC right?

[Hornet 6]

I give up on your lot......

You do what you like, but don't give advice to a brand new FAC holder that is not a 101% correct, it his him who pays the price for your advice (good or bad), not you.

If he follows my best advice he will be fine, that is a cast iron guaranty, can the rest of you claim the same ?

What you, me or anybody else gets away with has nothing to do with what is right.

 

Neil.