Deer - Meat Mashing Calibres

[Subsonic Flyer]

Having read a number of recent posts where members condone certain calibres for their meat destroying properties. Consider this:

 

If you were to shoot deer using any of the deer legal calibres with FMJ bullets the outcome would be similar, small entry hole, small exit wound and minimal meat damage. It surely then is not the calibre that is the problem but the choice of bullet. Expanding ammunition varies considerably with some makes expanding violently while others offer more predictable control. Yes velocity will have an effect, a bullet head selected for a .243 may perform badly but the same bullet used in .308/6.5 may give excellent results due to the lower velocities.

 

In short I can see no reason why any particular calibre should cause excessively more damage than the next as long as you have correctly matched it with a bullet that offers an appropriate level of expansion. Too much expansion = mucho meat damage!!

SF

[fullbore]

Having read a number of recent posts where members condone certain calibres for their meat destroying properties. Consider this:

 

If you were to shoot deer using any of the deer legal calibres with FMJ bullets the outcome would be similar, small entry hole, small exit wound and minimal meat damage. It surely then is not the calibre that is the problem but the choice of bullet. Expanding ammunition varies considerably with some makes expanding violently while others offer more predictable control. Yes velocity will have an effect, a bullet head selected for a .243 may perform badly but the same bullet used in .308/6.5 may give excellent results due to the lower velocities.

 

In short I can see no reason why any particular calibre should cause excessively more damage than the next as long as you have correctly matched it with a bullet that offers an appropriate level of expansion. Too much expansion = mucho meat damage!!

SF

except that you can't shoot deer with fmj, you MUST use bullets that deform in a predictable manner to use the correct term, ie expanding ammo

[Gemini]

Yes velocity will have an effect, a bullet head selected for a .243 may perform badly but the same bullet used in .308/6.5 may give excellent results due to the lower velocities.

 

In short I can see no reason why any particular calibre should cause excessively more damage than the next as long as you have correctly matched it with a bullet that offers an appropriate level of expansion. Too much expansion = mucho meat damage!!

SF

The trouble is you will never get all deer shooters to agree on one type of bullet, which means that you will always have a difference of opinion over this matter.

I have even read posts on other forms in which the shooter has advocated the use of V-max bullets on Roe. At first it was assumed that he had meant to say A-max, but no! He meant V-max.

Now anyone who uses v-max on fox will certainly be aware of the way in which this bullet “Blows up” on impact. Ideal for fox but not too brilliant for an animal the size of Roe.

As you say, the choice of bullet is sometimes a factor, but it can also be the velocity that that same bullet is driven at which makes the difference is the manner in which it performs.

Anyway, it makes for some diversity of thinking amongst shooters, as it would be a dull world if everyone thought the same.

G.M.

[dunganick]

gemini,

 

you mention they thought it was the A max

 

what is the difference between the A max and Vmax, i have used both, and as far as i can tell the A max is just marketed as a non expanding projectile (despite balistic tip) and is produced to higher tollerances than the V max. is this the case?

 

i have 200 A max, which i can use in the .223 when i get it, but there is no point even starting to work up a load with these if they arnt actually expanding projectiles.

 

i know people that have used balistic tips on deer because of safety issues, they personally are not happy letting a soft nose bullet go due to type of ground and the lie of the land. as gemini says, each to their own, you will never get everyone to agree.

[Gemini]

The A-max is marketed as a match grade target round which is designed to have a very high bullet coefficient. This makes it very efficient as an accurate target round, but it will also serve as a hunting round due to the fact that it does expand in a controlled manner.

This is where the stupidity of British firearms law shows itself, because whilst an “Expanding bullet” needs to be on ticket in order to purchase it, the A-max doesn’t even though it will do the same job as an expanding bullet.

It does pose the question though as to whether you could be in breech of the law requiring the use of expanding bullets on deer, because if they aren’t classed as expanding bullets, then you could be breaking the law in using them.

I’m going to lie down now…….I’ve got a headache just thinking about it…

G.M.

[Subsonic Flyer]

The "Premium Bullets" have been designed to combat the over expansion often found with the high velocity/magnum calibres. You’ll know when you’re using them as their price is often four times that of the standard expanding bullets. To name a couple - Hornady Interbond and Nosler Accubond guarantee retaining 90% of their original weight therefore providing controlled expansion, greater penetration and less meat damage.

 

I have a bullet chart supported by images showing extensive testing on 30-40 common expanding and match bullets that were fired at a range of velocities. This was carried out by the game and fisheries department in the States. It makes for some interesting viewing and clearly shows how poorly some of the more common makes perform. Most at 3,000 fps retain less that 50% and even at 2600 they are only averaging 65%. It clearly shows in the recovered segments that most expanding bullets break apart on impact with high end velocities.

 

Dunganick

I have used the Amax in a variety of calibres and they are very accurate due to their design. They are a match hollow point but with a plastic tip, essentially the same as the Sierra MatchKing. If you are thinking of using them for foxes they will perform well but they are definitely not suitable for larger game. I had the misfortune to witness a young fallow being shot with a 180g MatchKing from a 300 Rem Ultra Mag. The shot was good, 100 yard broadside, but the damage literally cut it in half. To say this guy was a little overgunned and had not matched the bullet to the quarry would be an understatement.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Subsonic Flyer

[dunganick]

The A-max is marketed as a match grade target round which is designed to have a very high bullet coefficient. This makes it very efficient as an accurate target round, but it will also serve as a hunting round due to the fact that it does expand in a controlled manner.

This is where the stupidity of British firearms law shows itself, because whilst an “Expanding bullet” needs to be on ticket in order to purchase it, the A-max doesn’t even though it will do the same job as an expanding bullet.

It does pose the question though as to whether you could be in breech of the law requiring the use of expanding bullets on deer, because if they aren’t classed as expanding bullets, then you could be breaking the law in using them.

I’m going to lie down now…….I’ve got a headache just thinking about it…

G.M.

yes, this is the silly point i was trying to point out.

 

i infact used them on a keyring i made, as i did not need a ticket to posses one (at the time i did not have my cert.)

 

think i will stick with the V max, the A max are a touch more expensive, and im tight

[Frank]

Here is whats leagle and not leagal on Roe , link below:

 

http://www.dcs.gov.uk/BestPractice/gd_fballisticschart.htm

[henry d]

I might add that the above is from the Deer Commission for SCOTLAND.

EDIT: Excellent site though Frank Thanks

[Frank]

I might add that the above is from the Deer Commission for SCOTLAND.

EDIT: Excellent site though Frank Thanks

No problem henry, only too pleased to oblige.

[Devilishdave]

What clown makes these rules you caun hammer nearly 9000ftlbs in to a dear but because it is bellow 2500fps it is ilegal even for roe. what a crock of ****.

 

Dave