Noise comparrison of a .222 and T3 mod VS .17HMR and DM80

[Mr_Logic]

Honestly, just get a Hornet. you won't regret it, promise you!

[ian_in_the_midlands]

PM sent.

[V8 90]

All my shooting would be done under 200yards as thats my comfort zone maximum.

With the HMR I wouldnt shoot past 80yards but the HMR does 70% of my shooting and the Rapid is doing the remaining 30% !

95 % + of my shooting is bunnys the rest being pigeon and fox. So retaining my rabbit capability is what comes first and foremost.

 

I have £600 I could spend if I go CF which I feel is to much money really to tie up in a fox rifle that may take 10 fox a year ! Or are there other out there who tie this sort of money up in a rifle that only see`s 10-15 kills a year and maybe 50 target shots ?

 

 

I have a Tikka T3 .223 that stands me around £850 - only use it as required for Fox & some long range hares on Sugar Beet when needed.

Once you have a CF its there for "When"

[dadioles]

I am a bit puzzled why you are only using the HMR out to about 80 yards.

With practice it is good on rabbits (head shots) out to 150 yards assuming not too much wind. For body shots (inedible - vermin control) 200 yards is practical but not to be encouraged.

You should be grouping within a 50p coin at 100 yards without too much effort and I zero at 100 yards shooting flat from about 35 yards to 110 yards after which the bullet starts to drop (3" at 150 yards) and needs either holdover or scope clicks adjustment. With a DM80 mod the noise is acceptable.

The .22LR is much quieter, obviously, and I use that at night and during the day on rabbits. It shoots flat from 15 to 55 yards and then starts to drop needing about 3" holdover at 80 yards. I zero the .22 at 50 yards with a 20p coin size group.

[kent]

I am a bit puzzled why you are only using the HMR out to about 80 yards.

With practice it is good on rabbits (head shots) out to 150 yards assuming not too much wind. For body shots (inedible - vermin control) 200 yards is practical but not to be encouraged.

You should be grouping within a 50p coin at 100 yards without too much effort and I zero at 100 yards shooting flat from about 35 yards to 110 yards after which the bullet starts to drop (3" at 150 yards) and needs either holdover or scope clicks adjustment. With a DM80 mod the noise is acceptable.

The .22LR is much quieter, obviously, and I use that at night and during the day on rabbits. It shoots flat from 15 to 55 yards and then starts to drop needing about 3" holdover at 80 yards. I zero the .22 at 50 yards with a 20p coin size group.

 

An honest 80yds limit should not be done down, the HMR has approx 4" full value windage at 100yds so even a 2 1/2 mph wind that might not even be detected will move it a full 1" windage of course increases expodentially with range making 150 head shots easier to talk about than carry out consistantly, so puzzle not its called knowing your limitations and an important part of ethical shooting. Indeed at 150yds never mind to quote as long as there is not too much wind give me a nice steady readable wind anyday personally so i know how to adjust for it. The Hornet by comarisom has just around half the wind of the HMR at 100yds and is very useable to the 150 you mention

[al4x]

80 was mentioned in the context of shooting foxes I believe

[kent]

There is no calibre that will do both efficiently, because the requirements of each are so different, any dual purpose rifle will be a massive compromise one way or the other. Even a Hornet will be too powerful for rabbits, and will only be good for fairly short range foxes.

 

If you need to control a lot of rabbits, the 22LR is hard to beat and cheap to buy and run. For foxes, 222, 223 or 22-250 make fox control easy and humane, and give a margin for error that you don't get with the HMR or Hornet.

 

Totally disagree how does 600-700 ftlb of energy make fox control difficult? compared to the .222 this is small potatoes but no less humane if the shooter sticks to sensible ranges of say 150 yds. i wouldn't mind betting that most foxes shot on the lamp across our entire country the average range is below this 150yds. Not sure what you mean by margin of error when the .222 and hornet use what is basically the same bullet, with regards the HMR i agree it aint even something i should want to use personally

Do you own a hornet? have you ever seen rabbits shot with one? Personally i don't own one yet but have seen rabbits done with them and they are very useable as head shot as long as they are not sitting on the end of your muzzle! and am very much of the mind now that it is actually the gun that a lot of us are looking for in the HMR to be in the UK. won't ever beat the .22lr at sub 70yds ranges but what the heck will?

[Salop Matt]

I am a bit puzzled why you are only using the HMR out to about 80 yards.

With practice it is good on rabbits (head shots) out to 150 yards assuming not too much wind. For body shots (inedible - vermin control) 200 yards is practical but not to be encouraged.

You should be grouping within a 50p coin at 100 yards without too much effort and I zero at 100 yards shooting flat from about 35 yards to 110 yards after which the bullet starts to drop (3" at 150 yards) and needs either holdover or scope clicks adjustment. With a DM80 mod the noise is acceptable.

The .22LR is much quieter, obviously, and I use that at night and during the day on rabbits. It shoots flat from 15 to 55 yards and then starts to drop needing about 3" holdover at 80 yards. I zero the .22 at 50 yards with a 20p coin size group.

 

 

The 80 yard range is is my mazimum for fox as with the HMR I will only head shoot as I am not confident of the HMR with boiler room shots !

 

Rabbits I will push to 100Yards but why make life difficult shooting at 100+ yards if you can take the shot at 50 ?

At 50 yards I have more room for any error. I shoot from sticks so thiese are my ranges that I feel I can stabalise to take a clean head shot at anything. Everything for me is a head shot because I sell bunnys and want to get it right with fox so that I am not injoring anything. My ranges may increase in the day light and if i was on a bipod on a solid platform etc but regardless of calibre at 8-10 x mag a fox is plenty small enough for me thanks. thats where my comfort zone is and I feel happy that i am going to acheive a instant kill with CF for a body shot.

HMR 80 yards is about the limit where I am confident of the head shot and the round doing the job !

I am under no pressure to clear the fox its done at my conveniance and only pressure from me to protect the pheasants that are roaming wild on my permitions ! Which is to protect them in hope of me getting some sport on the pheasant s later in the year !

 

With the advice etc on here for now I will be sticking with what I have and taking my time and working blood hard on the fox and last resort is get a CF shooter in to do it for me! Untill then the order for the day with me is :

Fox - 80yards max ( idealy 50) shot with the HMR and head shot thats a clear clean and steady shot.

Rabbits - 100 yard max but ideally 50 - 60 yards, again head shot only !

 

The round may be accurate out to further but this is what I happy with and a HMR at 150 yards on a fox . . . . . . . . some may be happy to do it but I wouldnt and am sure am not alone !

[ColinF]

Totally disagree how does 600-700 ftlb of energy make fox control difficult? compared to the .222 this is small potatoes but no less humane if the shooter sticks to sensible ranges of say 150 yds. i wouldn't mind betting that most foxes shot on the lamp across our entire country the average range is below this 150yds. Not sure what you mean by margin of error when the .222 and hornet use what is basically the same bullet, with regards the HMR i agree it aint even something i should want to use personally

Do you own a hornet? have you ever seen rabbits shot with one? Personally i don't own one yet but have seen rabbits done with them and they are very useable as head shot as long as they are not sitting on the end of your muzzle! and am very much of the mind now that it is actually the gun that a lot of us are looking for in the HMR to be in the UK. won't ever beat the .22lr at sub 70yds ranges but what the heck will?

 

Although the Hornet has plenty of power, the trajectory is much worse than any of the other .22 centerfires and the power is no good if you miss. By margin of error I mean that you dont have to know the exact range that you are shooting over. If the fox you thought was 150yds was actually 180yds you could miss or worse, wound it which might not have happened if you were using a flatter shooting calibre.

 

I dont own a hornet, but I do own a 223 and I wouldn't want to shoot more than a few rabbits with it, due to the cost, noise, meat damage etc. If you have to shoot lots of rabbits and centerfire is not the best option.

 

The Hornet is fine, but all I am saying is there are better calibres for foxes, and better calibres for rabbits.

[Mr_Logic]

Better calibres for rabbits? LR is cheaper and quieter, but Hornet costs the same and is the same volume as HMR. How is Hornet better or worse?

[dadioles]

The 80 yard range is is my mazimum for fox as with the HMR I will only head shoot as I am not confident of the HMR with boiler room shots !

 

Rabbits I will push to 100Yards but why make life difficult shooting at 100+ yards if you can take the shot at 50 ?

At 50 yards I have more room for any error. I shoot from sticks so thiese are my ranges that I feel I can stabalise to take a clean head shot at anything. Everything for me is a head shot because I sell bunnys and want to get it right with fox so that I am not injoring anything. My ranges may increase in the day light and if i was on a bipod on a solid platform etc but regardless of calibre at 8-10 x mag a fox is plenty small enough for me thanks. thats where my comfort zone is and I feel happy that i am going to acheive a instant kill with CF for a body shot.

HMR 80 yards is about the limit where I am confident of the head shot and the round doing the job !

I am under no pressure to clear the fox its done at my conveniance and only pressure from me to protect the pheasants that are roaming wild on my permitions ! Which is to protect them in hope of me getting some sport on the pheasant s later in the year !

 

With the advice etc on here for now I will be sticking with what I have and taking my time and working blood hard on the fox and last resort is get a CF shooter in to do it for me! Untill then the order for the day with me is :

Fox - 80yards max ( idealy 50) shot with the HMR and head shot thats a clear clean and steady shot.

Rabbits - 100 yard max but ideally 50 - 60 yards, again head shot only !

 

The round may be accurate out to further but this is what I happy with and a HMR at 150 yards on a fox . . . . . . . . some may be happy to do it but I wouldnt and am sure am not alone !

 

 

Thank you salop sniper for making that clear, I had not understood that you meant 80 max yards for fox. I thought you meant for anything.

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

All of my shooting is done either off a bipod or a very steady (and heavy) home made tripod affair which is the only reason I can headshoot rabbits with the HMR out to 150 yards in reasonably still air.

I do not find wind too much of a problem with the HMR. That is partly because I tend to shoot in calm conditions, partly because it is the crosswind component that has greatest effect and I try to be downwind, and partly because most of my shooting is at less than 100 yards (typically 60 - 90 yards).

[kent]

Although the Hornet has plenty of power, the trajectory is much worse than any of the other .22 centerfires and the power is no good if you miss. By margin of error I mean that you dont have to know the exact range that you are shooting over. If the fox you thought was 150yds was actually 180yds you could miss or worse, wound it which might not have happened if you were using a flatter shooting calibre.

 

I dont own a hornet, but I do own a 223 and I wouldn't want to shoot more than a few rabbits with it, due to the cost, noise, meat damage etc. If you have to shoot lots of rabbits and centerfire is not the best option.

 

The Hornet is fine, but all I am saying is there are better calibres for foxes, and better calibres for rabbits.

 

There is quite a gap between .223 and hornet as you point out this very much applies to its use on rabbit as regards lower damage and yes also some limitations foxing but "up to" 150yds means just that, i mean the error in the HMR for a misranged shot is gonna be a lot worse aint it now Even though as you rightly say there are better foxing rounds and better rabbit rounds have you ever wondered why such an out of date rimmed case still exists as a chambering today

[Gimlet]

The 80 yard range is is my mazimum for fox as with the HMR I will only head shoot as I am not confident of the HMR with boiler room shots !

 

Rabbits I will push to 100Yards but why make life difficult shooting at 100+ yards if you can take the shot at 50 ?

At 50 yards I have more room for any error. I shoot from sticks so thiese are my ranges that I feel I can stabalise to take a clean head shot at anything. Everything for me is a head shot because I sell bunnys and want to get it right with fox so that I am not injoring anything. My ranges may increase in the day light and if i was on a bipod on a solid platform etc but regardless of calibre at 8-10 x mag a fox is plenty small enough for me thanks. thats where my comfort zone is and I feel happy that i am going to acheive a instant kill with CF for a body shot.

HMR 80 yards is about the limit where I am confident of the head shot and the round doing the job !

I am under no pressure to clear the fox its done at my conveniance and only pressure from me to protect the pheasants that are roaming wild on my permitions ! Which is to protect them in hope of me getting some sport on the pheasant s later in the year !

 

With the advice etc on here for now I will be sticking with what I have and taking my time and working blood hard on the fox and last resort is get a CF shooter in to do it for me! Untill then the order for the day with me is :

Fox - 80yards max ( idealy 50) shot with the HMR and head shot thats a clear clean and steady shot.

Rabbits - 100 yard max but ideally 50 - 60 yards, again head shot only !

 

The round may be accurate out to further but this is what I happy with and a HMR at 150 yards on a fox . . . . . . . . some may be happy to do it but I wouldnt and am sure am not alone !