GSP working

[col48]

Hi All

This post is about not giving up on a dog when everything is going wrong and you can see no way to get all the problems sorted out.

I brought this dog 3 years ago and from day one have had problem after problem.

First he would not travel more than 1/2 mile down the road in my 4x4 with out emptying all his bowels and throwing up. This happened every single time i took him out.

I cured this by only traveling him short distance to the training field and traveling him in a box all the time. he now travels any distance with no problems at all. took a long time but we got over it.

 

I started training him to blood trail and he was OK but lacked concentration but i persisted with him.

I sent him to paint and pins for a few weeks to get the best out of him and he was the same with mark there. But he did say when he put his mind to it he was very very good.

Well i went stalking with him and he behaved as all was impeccable. He is all ways well behaved walks to heal well.

There was quit a few people stalking on the same spot and one of the chaps had grassed 2 muntjac but could only find 1 of them.

I was the only one who said i would give up my stalking the next morning and go and see if Zak could find the beast.

The weather could not have been any worse. it rained and rained all night.(yes i know that this wets the blood down and regenerates the sent)

But this was stupidly wet,the hole floor where i was meant to be tracking was flooded.There was hardly any ground that was not under water.

But i said to the chap i would give it a go and set to work with him. He tracked first exactly where the first deer had ran and found where the deer had laid dead.(this was the 1 they had found) so i took him back to the spot and off he went again this time he set of in the opposite direction and tracked the beast all the way down to a brook running down a hedge side. there lay the the beast.

I was amazed that he had found anything to track,let alone find the muntjac.

 

Now 3 years have passed now and i brought this dog to replace my springer when he is no longer able to work.

So i set about trying to train him to Hunt point and retrieve.

Zak has never been bothered with retrieving but my springer is mad keen, so i took them both out together this makes the dog that does not want to retrieve want to retrieve. as they don't seem to like it if they are left out and like to compete.

I all so did some work on his own. I'm afraid to say retrieving is still work in progress. But i think if i keep at it he will do the job.

He does retrieve but not how i need him to.

 

He all so would not hunt and so would not point (only deer ) He had no interest in hunting at all.

I have train a couple of dogs but could not do anything with him. so of to one of the best HPR trainers in the country.

Zak spent 2 weeks there and after this time i was told that he could not do anything with him.

Now when i brought this dog my head said leave him where he is. This dog was very very nervous and all the time my heart was saying you can do something with him.When my mate rang me to see if i had brought him or not i told him that yes i had but i should not have.

another problem with the dog is

He was nervous of load noises.(not gun shy just any loud noise) but yes he did not like bangs.

what he used to do was shoot right down as soon as he hears a loud noise,IE a gun or a pigeon banger going off.

so the trainers advise was to sell him and get another one.

 

This is what i decided to do but i thought wile i was looking for a good home for him i would keep on with him.(i don't like to give up on a dog )

so my thoughts where if i could get him hunting and get him excited about it (as they normally do) i could get him out of being gun/noise shy.

I persevered with him i tried a few tricks i have learned and bingo he started to take a bit of interest in hunting.

well here he is a month down the line.

 

 

 

[col48]

POST CONTINUED

 

I know some of this may be boring for most of you,But if you had seen this dog before. i must all so say sorry about the filming and the odd swear word but it is not easy filming and walking and working the dog.

 

 

Here is a happy dog in his work

 

 

 

 

post continued next post

[col48]

 

you can see in the video that he has a E collar on. This is the first time he has had this on and is on for one reason and one reason only.to get him hunting i let him chase game. it is now time to stop this. He has chased a few hears about and would not stop one the whistle. so if a rabbit or something gets up and I'm a long way off i will use the collar, but i don't use one for anything else. (i have borrowed the E caller from a m8 and do not use one normally in training a dog)

 

 

NEXT POST CONTINUED AS IT WILL ONLY LET ME POST 2 VIDS

[col48]

 

 

 

I have got a couple more to down load. or have you had enough of my videos ?

 

What do you think ?

 

ATB

Colin

[alfa taf]

A really lovely dog , working rely well.

The way he works reminds me of GSP I had , sadly not with me any more.

With mine it was a parallel story , in that he was , to start with , a rather strong headed dog that would chase

any bird he would flash ,and took him quite a long time to settle down.

Retrieving was not his strong point to start with but I carried on , as retrieving is really of the outmost in the sort of ground we hunt in Greece. He finally got there and quite liked it.

 

Again a lovely dog well trained.

[helenthomas]

When I first started reading this, I had a sense of dread. I thought you were passing him on. As I continued through this, the smile got bigger on my face.

I hope you are really proud and satisfied after all the work that you have put in, to produce such a fine working companion.

I can only wish that others put in the effort and persevered when things got tough. I run the GSP training group in Surrey/Hants area and it makes my blood boil how dogs get moved on if they don't prove easy. The rescue pages are proof of this.

How old is he now just out of interest? And which trainer told you he was a hopeless case?

My older GWP used to do the poo thing the instant he got put in a car. I would drive round our tiny block, clear up, and go again. I could never believe how much poo could come out of 1 dog!

Well done again. Helen.

[kent]

Fantasic, makes me wonder who the pro was! I do believe HPR's take time to grow up and come into thier own, you just can't be the sort that quits and the 101st hurdle Did you sort the gunshy issue? I am glad your final post is not "anyone wanna give me 2k for it" Like Helen i was dreading that one. They are not all the same though the issues with my GWP are the polar oposites to yours but yeah it aint an easy process. Shame on the pro giving up after two weeks, it might take that long just to find out what makes them tick. No shame in using that e-collar used correctly they are a tool usued carelessly or worse vengefully they are an evil weapon. I used one as mine put sheep on the quarry list all of a sudden one day during adolecence (bit of a ****** when you like on a sheep farm)

[col48]

When I first started reading this, I had a sense of dread. I thought you were passing him on. As I continued through this, the smile got bigger on my face.

I hope you are really proud and satisfied after all the work that you have put in, to produce such a fine working companion.

I can only wish that others put in the effort and persevered when things got tough. I run the GSP training group in Surrey/Hants area and it makes my blood boil how dogs get moved on if they don't prove easy. The rescue pages are proof of this.

How old is he now just out of interest? And which trainer told you he was a hopeless case?

My older GWP used to do the poo thing the instant he got put in a car. I would drive round our tiny block, clear up, and go again. I could never believe how much poo could come out of 1 dog!

Well done again. Helen.

 

Hi Helen

Thanks for your kind words. I'm afraid i will not name anyone as this would do good really. i suppose it is essayer to just train the essayer dogs and just take them out for 20 minuets a day.

 

ATB

Colin

[kermitpwee]

Hi Helen

Thanks for your kind words. I'm afraid i will not name anyone as this would do good really. i suppose it is essayer to just train the essayer dogs and just take them out for 20 minuets a day.

 

ATB

Colin

 

 

Its not the trainers fault mate its your dogs reluctance to hunt, a pro once gave me a setter for free he told me that the dog needed 3 months attention that he couldnt give it. The dog had been locked in a shed for 6 months without getting light. He brought me for a trial, ******* useless she was. He swore he didnt have time for her but she would come on if i gave her time that only an amateur would have. I took the dog( only reason was her granfather was a Ftch) and she turned into a cracker but it was sweat blood and tears foe 18 months. Its not the pros fault and it would be unfair to blame him.

 

I read all your post and your videos and will say this, FAIR PLAY to you, you are a credit. I found your post very inspiring, total old school, 'when the tough gets going the tough get going'.

 

Well done mate.

Edited March 19, 2011 by kermitpwee

[col48]

Fantasic, makes me wonder who the pro was! I do believe HPR's take time to grow up and come into thier own, you just can't be the sort that quits and the 101st hurdle Did you sort the gunshy issue? I am glad your final post is not "anyone wanna give me 2k for it" Like Helen i was dreading that one. They are not all the same though the issues with my GWP are the polar oposites to yours but yeah it aint an easy process. Shame on the pro giving up after two weeks, it might take that long just to find out what makes them tick. No shame in using that e-collar used correctly they are a tool usued carelessly or worse vengefully they are an evil weapon. I used one as mine put sheep on the quarry list all of a sudden one day during adolecence (bit of a ****** when you like on a sheep farm)

 

 

Hi Kent

 

On the gun shy bit i am still working on this but if i keep going as i am i do think i can crack it. Zak is coming on leps and bounds.

He only jumps really at pigeon bangers. And he does not shut down at all(well he has not done for a wile)

I have been using a starting pistol with him and he is OK with this.

my next line of training is going to be focused on retrieving. i am going right back to getting him all excited about fetching the dummy and just let him run straight in and get it. no sit stay and all that stuff just make it a big game.

then move him on to the real thing as at the moment i can get him to retrieve cold game but he plays with it a lot.If i can get him retrieving and introduce the gun with this and the hunting up (i all so have a remote trap i can use to get everything how i want it)Game then i do believe as long as he associates the bang with good things then he can be turned around. how long will it take well thats another story.

all that being said I'm half way there all ready.

i just need to go to the gun shop and get some proper blanks as i don't like them blank firing pistols,They make a crack not a bang.

 

As for the E collar i do believe they have a place in training dogs. But i have seen more abused than used correctly.And I'm sorry to say this means only one thing the pore dog gets abused. A lot of people use them to compensate for pore training.

But as i have just said when used right and in the right conditions they are very very good tool.

 

ATB

Colin

[col48]

Its not the trainers fault mate its your dogs reluctance to hunt, a pro once gave me a setter for free he told me that the dog needed 3 months attention that he couldnt give it. The dog had been locked in a shed for 6 months without getting light. He brought me for a trial, ******* useless she was. He swore he didnt have time for her but she would come on if i gave her time that only an amateur would have. I took the dog( only reason was her granfather was a Ftch) and she turned into a cracker but it was sweat blood and tears foe 18 months. Its not the pros fault and it would be unfair to blame him.

 

I read all your post and your videos and will say this, FAIR PLAY to you, you are a credit. I found your post very inspiring, total old school, 'when the tough gets going the tough get going'.

 

Well done mate.

 

Hi Kermitpwee

 

I must admit i have had very very bad days with him and i have said on a daily basis that he is going to be sold.

not got to the stage where he has been advertised but been close.

I kept on with him for one reason as i don't like to give up on things easy, and if i could get him hunting he could have a good life has a hawking dog. This he could do now so no matter what goes off now he will all ways have a working life and so hopefully a happy life.

But i came home to day from pigeon shooting with my springer and he went absolute crazy. He was so excited to see me and he jumped all over me and sniffed every last inch of all my clothes.

This dog has never so much has lifted his head when i come home, he never gets excited about anything except his dinner.

Even my m8 said he looked a different dog yesterday.

As for the pro trainer i don't think they could ever have the time to put in to Zak the amount of time i have spent on him.

and still am.

ATB

Colin

[kermitpwee]

Hi Kermitpwee

 

I must admit i have had very very bad days with him and i have said on a daily basis that he is going to be sold.

not got to the stage where he has been advertised but been close.

I kept on with him for one reason as i don't like to give up on things easy, and if i could get him hunting he could have a good life has a hawking dog. This he could do now so no matter what goes off now he will all ways have a working life and so hopefully a happy life.

But i came home to day from pigeon shooting with my springer and he went absolute crazy. He was so excited to see me and he jumped all over me and sniffed every last inch of all my clothes.

This dog has never so much has lifted his head when i come home, he never gets excited about anything except his dinner.

Even my m8 said he looked a different dog yesterday.

As for the pro trainer i don't think they could ever have the time to put in to Zak the amount of time i have spent on him.

and still am.

ATB

Colin

 

 

I was just thinking there would an E collar be a disaster? If it took you a good while to get the dog to hunt would using an E collar on him when he's chasing a hare make him associate the shock with hunting. Just some thing to ponder maybe.

[col48]

I was just thinking there would an E collar be a disaster? If it took you a good while to get the dog to hunt would using an E collar on him when he's chasing a hare make him associate the shock with hunting. Just some thing to ponder maybe.

 

Yes it could put him off having anything to do with hares, but my thinking is a mild stimulation will take his attention from off chasing and then hopefully he will hear the sit whistle.

The collar i have lent from a m8 has different stimulation settings so what i do is feel what shock i am giving the dog,And try and gage what intensity to use.

But the thing i do have in my favor is i have no problems with pheasant or partridge. so i can drop him straight back on one of them or even a pigeon in the trap and this should get him back hunting.

But i don't see it going this way has i believe the hunting drive is good enough for him to over come the E Collar otherwise i would not be doing it.(i could be wrong)But i think he is ready.

ATB

Colin

[The Duncan]

Col, could you post some links as the pics etc are not coming through for me.

Cheers

 

Duncan

[helenthomas]

Hi Helen

Thanks for your kind words. I'm afraid i will not name anyone as this would do good really. i suppose it is essayer to just train the essayer dogs and just take them out for 20 minuets a day.

 

ATB

Colin

 

 

Fair one Colin, and as someone rightfully said - a couple of weeks is no time for a trainer to be able to win over and get the best out of a dog. Especially one that needs that bit extra.

Good luck with the retrieving side of things. Helen.

[col48]

Col, could you post some links as the pics etc are not coming through for me.

Cheers

 

Duncan

 

Hi duncan

I did put them down as links. But they came up like they did on the post.All i have to do is click on the image and the video plays.

 

Here are a few more

 

 

[col48]

 

 

ATB

Colin

[kermitpwee]

Yes it could put him off having anything to do with hares, but my thinking is a mild stimulation will take his attention from off chasing and then hopefully he will hear the sit whistle.

The collar i have lent from a m8 has different stimulation settings so what i do is feel what shock i am giving the dog,And try and gage what intensity to use.

But the thing i do have in my favor is i have no problems with pheasant or partridge. so i can drop him straight back on one of them or even a pigeon in the trap and this should get him back hunting.

But i don't see it going this way has i believe the hunting drive is good enough for him to over come the E Collar otherwise i would not be doing it.(i could be wrong)But i think he is ready.

ATB

Colin

 

Well he's your dog so you would know him best. Good luck with the training.

[kent]

Hi Kent

 

On the gun shy bit i am still working on this but if i keep going as i am i do think i can crack it. Zak is coming on leps and bounds.

He only jumps really at pigeon bangers. And he does not shut down at all(well he has not done for a wile)

I have been using a starting pistol with him and he is OK with this.

my next line of training is going to be focused on retrieving. i am going right back to getting him all excited about fetching the dummy and just let him run straight in and get it. no sit stay and all that stuff just make it a big game.

then move him on to the real thing as at the moment i can get him to retrieve cold game but he plays with it a lot.If i can get him retrieving and introduce the gun with this and the hunting up (i all so have a remote trap i can use to get everything how i want it)Game then i do believe as long as he associates the bang with good things then he can be turned around. how long will it take well thats another story.

all that being said I'm half way there all ready.

i just need to go to the gun shop and get some proper blanks as i don't like them blank firing pistols,They make a crack not a bang.

 

As for the E collar i do believe they have a place in training dogs. But i have seen more abused than used correctly.And I'm sorry to say this means only one thing the pore dog gets abused. A lot of people use them to compensate for pore training.

But as i have just said when used right and in the right conditions they are very very good tool.

 

ATB

Colin

 

I like you attitude towards getting him homed as a hawking dog if he doesn't crack the rest, personally from the story so far i feel you will crack it with enough work

[col48]

Hi Kent

 

I have been out with him today and his retrieving has just gone up a notch, he was running out for them very very excited about it.

All so i have used the dummy launcher with the springer and Zak was by his side and when Jamie brought the dummy back i quickly through it out for Zak and he went and brought it back.

So he did not shut down at all.

I'm going to carry on with him through the summer and if all goes to plan i will be picking up with him this year.

And the old springer can all ways do a good job as well,he loves picking up.

 

ATB

Colin