Passing on permissions

[Klunk]

Hypothetical question...:

Let's say a landowner gave written permission to shooter 'A' to shoot on his land, with explicit permission to have others also shoot with him. Would 'A' then be able to sign a permission letter for another shooter 'B', or would the landowner need to sign it?

 

Your thoughts?

[Beardo]

No. - shooter A would always have to accompany shooter B.

Shooter B would need a written letter from the landowner to shoot alone.

[Highlander]

No

 

If shooter 'A' has wrtten permission to shoot along with 'accompanied' others then why would they (shooter 'A') need to give written permission in turn? Shooter 'A' cannot legally give written pernmission in turn.

[Klunk]

Thanks for the responses, folks!

I was thinking specifically of a situation where 'A' isn't available to get to the farmer's land to shoot, for instance because he's on holiday, and the farmer's also otherwise indisposed, but does still need his crops protecting. 'A' writes 'B' a note granting him permission to stand-in for him while he's away. Better to let those crops take a battering?

[Beardo]

doesn't matter on the situation - it's a no go.

[al4x]

I was thinking a definite no however it may depend on the agreement in place, most syndicates who have agreements with landowners can then permit people to shoot on the ground. Similar to Keepers being able to pass on the shooting permission. Bear in mind written permission isn't actually needed at all and in the situation you are mentioning if crops were being hammered then A could call the landowner say I'm away but B will be along if that is ok and all would be sweet.

[Klunk]

Your response most especially appreciated al4x. She's lovely, isn't she?

 

That is what I was thinking as well. There's no legal requirement that I'm aware of (I stand to be corrected) that says you have to have a letter. It's obviously good practice, but not a necessity. If 'A' signs a permission letter for 'B', with the prior verbal agreement of the landowner, then does that not constitute a sort of informal syndicate? One I was just pondering, you see, and it's not as straightforward as it first appears.

 

I just thought I post it on here to see what peoples' thoughts were. Perhaps somebody out there has already been in this situation, or is a lawyer with knowledge of this sort of thing.

[Bleeh]

Your response most especially appreciated al4x. She's lovely, isn't she?

 

That is what I was thinking as well. There's no legal requirement that I'm aware of (I stand to be corrected) that says you have to have a letter. It's obviously good practice, but not a necessity. If 'A' signs a permission letter for 'B', with the prior verbal agreement of the landowner, then does that not constitute a sort of informal syndicate? One I was just pondering, you see, and it's not as straightforward as it first appears.

 

I just thought I post it on here to see what peoples' thoughts were. Perhaps somebody out there has already been in this situation, or is a lawyer with knowledge of this sort of thing.

 

 

There's no real legal standpoint here, it's an informal agreement and you've really got no rights what so ever.

 

If the farmer says you can shoot his fields (for free, i.e no money/exchange of labor has been involved) then if we wants to change his mind the moment you've arrived and set up your hide, he's fully within his rights to do so, and there's jack all you can reply with, the same goes to anything involving you and his land. To put it simply he can do what ever the hell he wants without an otherwise written contract, verbal agreement or not.

 

Further to this point, put yourself in his shoes, You've got a nice young chap permission to shoot, someone you know, and to some extent trust, because of this you allow him to take a mate if he wants. That's what you said you can do, and further to this anything more would be taking the ****. What would you say he he arrived with 15 mates? or what would you do if some random, unknown chap started blasting randomly in your fields? you'd tell them to f' off.

 

 

Too long, didn't read? :- If the Land owner says it's fine, it's fine, if you don't ask him he'll be ****** and you stand and loosing your permission.

[al4x]

It's obviously good practice, but not a necessity. If 'A' signs a permission letter for 'B', with the prior verbal agreement of the landowner, then does that not constitute a sort of informal syndicate? One I was just pondering, you see, and it's not as straightforward as it first appears.

 

If A has the legal ability to give the permission then fine its ok fundamentally if they don't and the police turn up then its armed trespass letter or no letter.

It would depend on the agreement they have with the landowner and usually would be done with their knowledge.

I shoot on one estate with the keepers permission the landowner has little idea but the keeper has the ability to give permission. In my case its not written its verbal but if you're trying to get round a proper permission letter for gaining FAC etc it may well not work

[Klunk]

al4x,

 

No, I don't mean trying anything underhand to obtain an FAC. Heck no.

 

The scenario I had in mind would be a pigeon shooter, who's farmer is screaming at him to deal with his pigeons, but who simply can't get on to the ground to do what's required, getting someone else who he knows and trusts to be a safe shot to go onto that land in his place to help both him and the farmer out a bit. (In anticipation of numerous offers of help from PW members, I underline again that this is a hypothetical question, thanks.)

 

 

 

[al4x]

in that situation a simple call to the farmer by the shooter is all that is required to check.

[bakerboy]

Take "B" with you, introduce him to the Farmer in plenty of time prior to any holidays, and explain the reason you have introduced "B".

If the Farmer is OK with the situation, accompany "B" on a few shoots so that the Farmer gets confidence in "B" and gets to know him.

Let "B"(with the Farmers permission) shoot alone once or twice before the said Holiday and then get the Holiday cover sorted for the limited period.

It is all about transparency,honesty and Trust.

Edited April 20, 2011 by bakerboy

[njc110381]

I agree with the above in 99% of cases. Unless you've got an arrangement with the land owner and they have actually said that you may send friends if you can't make it, then forget it! A lot of the places I shoot are happy for me to take along a friend. There's no way I'd assume it was ok for them to go alone though, that's just daft and could result in a lot of bother! All it takes is a phone call. If you can't get hold of the farmer leave a message and try again later.