Speer TNT in the Hornet

[njc110381]

After my recent bad experience with 45gr Sierra SP in my Hornet I went over to Reloading Solutions in Oxford to get some 35gr V-Max. Well it turns out they'd sold out so I opted for some 33gr Speer TNT instead.

 

What a bullet they are. I've not shot a Fox with one yet but looking at what they did to the couple of Rabbits I shot with them, well they'll work I should think! Talk about explosive. One of the smaller ones I shot was very nearly cut in half!

 

I'm not sure what the long range performance is like as they have a huge hollow point but for sensible ranges I recon they'll be great. If you own a Hornet and aren't happy with what you use now, give them a try. I'm certainly impressed.

Edited May 4, 2011 by njc110381

[willy1]

Neil, i've been using Sierra 40gn Hornet SP's(12.8gns Lil'Gun) with no problems in my Hornet,what were the problems with the 45's?.

How much powder are you using with the Speer TNT's?

thanks,

 

Alan

[Mr_Logic]

The 45s are a much tougher bullet, they're best suited to deer (which is daft as you can't use them on deer nowadays, but hey...). The 40s work quite nicely.

 

I never did try the 33gr TNT on live quarry as my rifle didn't like them, and the BC is truly shocking! Still if they're working for you, good news!

[njc110381]

I was thinking the 45's may be designed as a Deer bullet?! They certainly perform that way. Having said that, a 35gr V-Max puts a Roe down with no trouble at all (humane shot, I couldn't leave it and it did the job just fine with a boiler room hit).

 

I'm loading 13gr of Lil-Gun under the TNT's so they're going pretty quickly I should think.

[wymberley]

I was thinking the 45's may be designed as a Deer bullet?! They certainly perform that way. Having said that, a 35gr V-Max puts a Roe down with no trouble at all (humane shot, I couldn't leave it and it did the job just fine with a boiler room hit).

 

I'm loading 13gr of Lil-Gun under the TNT's so they're going pretty quickly I should think.

If it's any help, 13gr of Lil'gun shoves 35gr V Max at 2930 for me; can't be too much difference with just a 2gr bullet weight difference.

[stevethevanman]

Original source: Gun and Game Forums (USA)

 

22 Hornet - 45 grain Hornady. Range 70 yards. velocity 2500 fps. 110 lbs doe. Bullet entered behind right shoulder, angled forward thru lungs, penatrating left shoulder. deer traveled about 50 yards. Bullet Found under hide. recovered weight - 39 grains.

 

 

Not meant as a thread crasher. Thought you guys that shoot the hornet might find it interesting.

 

Steve

Edited May 4, 2011 by stevethevanman

[kent]

So as i am in the process of adding a hornet to my collection. What single bullet would you lot recomend? i am looking for a single carry gun that can handle Rabbit (and leave them fit for table) Hare (likewise) up to say 150 max- obviously i don't expect to take body shots and achieve this, crow within whatever range i can get a good clean shot and Fox within sensible range limitations (thinking the limits about 150 maybee further if i can get the accuraccy again an unkown). What i don't want to do if i can avoid it is have multiple loads and as a result multiple zeros. Remember the whole idea behind this gun is a single carry tool.

Will be reloading, will replace my Hummer that although accurate has prooved "unpredictable" on terminal effect and not legal for fox in Lancs and from my experiances with the above "unpredictability" i have to agree

 

As for Deer i have recovered deer injured by all sorts of non legal means, all of which could kill quite well but didn't fact is our deer law is about right presently and i won't be shooting any deer in the chest with a Hornet even if it were made legal (which i very much doubt). Diapointed someone posting of doing this on "humanitarian" grounds, to my mind this excuse is only valid at ranges of a few feet- were there are far better targets to take than the chest

[Mr_Logic]

The best Hornet bullet is the 35gr vmax. 40gr Nosler also good but problematic due to bullet length - not really a hornet bullet.

 

35vmax will kill anything you like at 150, certainly body shots on all species you mention will work nicely.

[wymberley]

Kent,

For your needs, Mr Logic has probably nailed it. You will have seen Lil'gun mentioned - I did so for njc - I use my Hornet for a different application and that particular load gave me the same 1" high at 90yds for both the 40 and 35 bullets ( now I have to go through the same exercise all over again as with the doubler fitted the N550 was so impressive that it's now off the LR and on the Hornet ). Handy. However, you may just find that that powder is possibly not the best for the 35gr V Max.

Cheers

[willy1]

Wymberley is possibly correct on powders, Lil'Gun is the most used,but, if you are going to try different powders,the AA1680 is worth a try as is Vit N110, or Hodgdon H110,all with the Hornady 35gn V-Max bullet.

Any of these will be a 'killer out to a MAXIMUM of 175 yards.

 

Alan

[kent]

Wymberley is possibly correct on powders, Lil'Gun is the most used,but, if you are going to try different powders,the AA1680 is worth a try as is Vit N110, or Hodgdon H110,all with the Hornady 35gn V-Max bullet.

Any of these will be a 'killer out to a MAXIMUM of 175 yards.

 

Alan

 

have been doing some research and its said lil gun can achieve very similar speeds to the above but with less pressure, that sounds good to me as brass life seems to be an issue with the round. To this ends i am going for Wilson Bench rest neck bushing dies and using them in the arbour press. Besides i like the tactile feel of this gear over and above my big press and can even work on the kitchen table or at my shooting posision with it if i wish. Also small pistol primers are reconed to be the thing as light as possible, is this concurrent with other hornet owners findings?

I realise the 35 grn v-max will deal with Charlie but will it do ok on Rabbit and Hare as regards damage, the load is not going to cut it for me if it blows up edible stuff ( ok i realise this is contradictory but i don't think its impossible with the correct compromise balance). Just in my experiance v-max tend towards the frangible side. if going out for Fox alone i should take the .243" 95 out of 100 occasions. The other 5 might be covering dens or other locations were i know the range will be short and maximum sound supresion might be good. However no way can you get a .243" load down to rabbit and fox proportions even with head shots you seem to get legs 20ft in either direction on rabbits that is

Edited May 5, 2011 by kent

[willy1]

The V-max will do a massive amount of damage to a rabbit or hare if body shot,one of the reasons i've gone over to Seirra 40gn Hornet soft point bullets,these don't do so much damage.Correct with the lower pressure of the Lil'Gun powder,that's why it's so popular.But, the question was asked about other powders and an answer was given.

 

Alan

 

I should also add that it's possible to down load a hornet round to subsonic,I know i've done it.

Edited May 5, 2011 by willy1

[njc110381]

As for Deer i have recovered deer injured by all sorts of non legal means, all of which could kill quite well but didn't fact is our deer law is about right presently and i won't be shooting any deer in the chest with a Hornet even if it were made legal (which i very much doubt). Diapointed someone posting of doing this on "humanitarian" grounds, to my mind this excuse is only valid at ranges of a few feet- were there are far better targets to take than the chest

 

 

I would agree with you 99% of the time on this one kent, the 35gr V-Max isn't a Deer bullet by any means. The situation I was in at the time made me think that taking the shot was the best plan. A Roe had been stuck in a fence for some time. It tried to jump it and got it's front leg stuck between the barb strand and the stock mesh from what I could see. The leg was very mangled and the Deer was in a shocking state. I would say it had been there for some time before I found it.

 

When I approached to do the deer it somehow managed to wriggle free and did it's best to run away. It was too weak to run properly and was almost dead, but I didn't think there was much chance of me getting near it. I tracked it for a bit and took the shot as it was moving from about 40 yards. I wasn't confident of a head shot on a moving target so put one in the boiler room. It didn't look like it planned to stop any time soon and I was running out of land I had permission on so I whacked it. I think I did the right thing, it didn't move far before dropping and the way I see it I couldn't have left it in that state to look for it another day.

 

Regarding bullets for Rabbits, almost everything I've used in the Hornet has made a mess. If anything the 45gr bullets may be worth a go as they'll drill straight through and cause minimal damage. I haven't tried the 40's but they sound good - perhaps give them a go?

 

I'm found the reply regarding the 45gr on Deer very interesting. Cheers for posting it.

[kent]

The V-max will do a massive amount of damage to a rabbit or hare if body shot,one of the reasons i've gone over to Seirra 40gn Hornet soft point bullets,these don't do so much damage.Correct with the lower pressure of the Lil'Gun powder,that's why it's so popular.But, the question was asked about other powders and an answer was given.

 

Alan

 

I should also add that it's possible to down load a hornet round to subsonic,I know i've done it.

 

yeah, you can even buy modified cases to achieve the subsonic and reduced load thing a bit safer i believe. personally i can't see the point as my rimfire will do the same job better and cheaper, interesting non the less. Dont take the powder thing wrong was just sounding out the lil gun giving lower pressure for same end, i know somtimes a load or a gun just shoots better with another powder and will be trying a few during load development. So the 40 grn seirra is ok for body shots on bunny and hare is it? leaving an edible prize not a mushy mess? i don't mind using v-max if it means i have to head shoot only, its just my experiance with other centrefires is werever they are hit then its totally crow food as fragments of bone and the sheer hydrolic shock just splat them. all said and done something putting out enough extra to make a sort of super hot WMR with handloading presision accuraccy is what i am looking for, is the Hornet going to be the right gun???

[willy1]

Kent, no offence taken at all,in my opinion Lil'Gun is most likely to be the best choice for powder,low pressure,and a saving on others.

The subsonic Hornet loads that i tried were from an American site,I won't give details on open forum,just to say that they did work reasonably well, chrono'ed at 1060 fps,but had a chance of richocets,I agree a .22lr is as good if not better,but as in all things shooting,it's good to experiment.

With regards to Lil'Gun,there is a lady reloader in the USA who just fills the hornet case to the top, and seats the bullet, no problems at all.

I've found that the Sierra 40gn Hornets don't make such a mess of rabbits,V-max tends to blow them apart,the Sierra makes a small hole on entry and expands inside,a bit messy,but mostly the body is in one piece.

 

Alan

[kent]

Kent, no offence taken at all,in my opinion Lil'Gun is most likely to be the best choice for powder,low pressure,and a saving on others.

The subsonic Hornet loads that i tried were from an American site,I won't give details on open forum,just to say that they did work reasonably well, chrono'ed at 1060 fps,but had a chance of richocets,I agree a .22lr is as good if not better,but as in all things shooting,it's good to experiment.

With regards to Lil'Gun,there is a lady reloader in the USA who just fills the hornet case to the top, and seats the bullet, no problems at all.

I've found that the Sierra 40gn Hornets don't make such a mess of rabbits,V-max tends to blow them apart,the Sierra makes a small hole on entry and expands inside,a bit messy,but mostly the body is in one piece.

 

Alan

 

thanks, sounds like the 40 grn sierra is what i am after then- like i say happy to restrict myself to headshots on edibles. if they do the job on charlie with a heart lung and i cant see 40 grns of lead at over 2000 fps not stopping crows better than my hmr then its ok by me. i always individually weigh out each load but it's hartening to know you cant realy have a major brain bypass and blow the lot up with lil gun though it was the talk of low pressures with same velocity that turned me onto the brass life.

Whats the reconing on Brass i can find Remmington, privi and winchester offerings but privi is by far the cheapest is it any good? or am i better off with the other stuff, must say i have never realy liked remmington brass previously on other cals having lots of split necks on second or third reloads at times. thought i might turn a load of factory privi into reloading brass initially

[Mr_Logic]

I have used the 40 gr Sierra and the 35gr Vmax. I will stick with the 35gr because it is more accurate for me (though likely to shoot the last box of 40s i got cheap...). Both bullets make a bloody great hole in a rabbit, so there is no choosing one over the other for that. My load is 12.3gr H110 under a 35gr V-max, and I would advise you at least try that load because I'm not the only one who it works for. On a fox, I would take the 35gr vmax - I rarely have an exit wound, and most of the time Charlie is sloppy when picked up for disposal.

 

H110 is easier to load than Lilgun, because it does not fill the case. Because of this, loads are more consistent. Lilgun is very low pressure indeed, such that you literally can just fill the case and put a bullet on it, even with the heavier bullets. However, I've found my brass lasts just fine, and I just use Prvi.

 

I use a small rifle primer, I tried small pistol and they pierced so very quickly gave up with that. Lilgun was OK though with its stupidly low pressure, but I get a load better MV from H110. My accuracy as mentioned is sub half inch most of the time so I am not at all worried there...

Edited May 5, 2011 by Mr_Logic

[kent]

been playing a bit with quickload and quicktarget. Mainly to compare with the HMR i wish to replace and the .222 which would be my other choice, the later .222 would perhaps mean keeping the hummer for the bunnies, being just a tad to much without working with two loads (which i don't want to do) requirements being an every day jack of all trades for ground game and vermin.

Anyway cut to the chase. with all things being equal it looks like the 45grn Hornady hornet is the top choice if the gun in question shoots them the parameters being for myself; range were drop from a 100 yds zero passes the 1 1/2" mark 146 yds total drop at 200yds 5.6" and 100 yds windage at 10mph full value 1.78" . issue is will it shoot as the favoured CZ has a 1-16 twist which to all accounts favours the shorter lighter offerings? perhaps someone who has tried might enlighten me in this regards?

This is basically half the windage of the HMR @ 100yds and 3" less drop @ 200yds ( the hmr never was a 200yds gun imo having a drop of 9.6" at that range and a wopping great 16.4" of wind! the .222 seems capable of a 30yds advantage in trajectory drop to the 1 1/2" parameter getting to 176 yds at best but a singnificantly less drop @ 200yds by 4" over the weaker hornet windage being roughly equal as makes no matter @ 100yds. However a good 10 grns more powder and shorter barrel life added to that more noise, so as the .243 i already have will run rings round the .222 in the power/ performance stakes and ultimatly its not a 200yd + gun i am personally looking at anyway, it fits inbetween the flatter .222 and the more loopy 17hmr at that range being useable but at its limits. so i think the hornet is going to be the next addition to my own safe, all i have to do now is find one

[wymberley]

I'm killing rabbit in excess of 200yds - not a lot, but excess ne'r the less. Body shots (yuk) as I'm using the N550, but with a fine duplex reticuled scope a head shot would be on (a bit shorter range perhaps). Winchester SRP and case, 40gr Nosler BT and 13.5 gr of Lil'gun and COL of 1.940" for (in my barrel) 2982ft/sec. Yep, single shot. Got the second shot for fox if necessary sorted - velcro just forward of mag holding the round ready to pop in if req'd. Almost as quick as a mag feed. Worth a try if you're having a fiddle.

[Mr_Logic]

the CZ will stabilise the 45gr softpoint no problem. don't trust its expansion on small critters mind.

[kent]

I'm killing rabbit in excess of 200yds - not a lot, but excess ne'r the less. Body shots (yuk) as I'm using the N550, but with a fine duplex reticuled scope a head shot would be on (a bit shorter range perhaps). Winchester SRP and case, 40gr Nosler BT and 13.5 gr of Lil'gun and COL of 1.940" for (in my barrel) 2982ft/sec. Yep, single shot. Got the second shot for fox if necessary sorted - velcro just forward of mag holding the round ready to pop in if req'd. Almost as quick as a mag feed. Worth a try if you're having a fiddle.

N550 from vhit? am i reading that correctly? thats a double base .308 class powder aint it?

[kent]

the CZ will stabilise the 45gr softpoint no problem. don't trust its expansion on small critters mind.

 

i doubt they don't like it up em though cpt Mannering seriously i am going to try a one load fits all approch, i know there will be compromises to make along the way the best thing is i can over time and experiance tailor things more to my likeing. i supose that might be why the hornet has outlived itself as a chambering?

[wymberley]

N550 from vhit? am i reading that correctly? thats a double base .308 class powder aint it?

Ah, sorry, mate; never heard of that powder. No! Pulsar N550 digital sight. Mag is limited even with the doubler and the reticules aren't the finest.

[kent]

Ah, sorry, mate; never heard of that powder. No! Pulsar N550 digital sight. Mag is limited even with the doubler and the reticules aren't the finest.

 

was just getting a little conserned there, i know powders but nothing of night sights

[kent]

been playing a bit with quickload and quicktarget. Mainly to compare with the HMR i wish to replace and the .222 which would be my other choice, the later .222 would perhaps mean keeping the hummer for the bunnies, being just a tad to much without working with two loads (which i don't want to do) requirements being an every day jack of all trades for ground game and vermin.

Anyway cut to the chase. with all things being equal it looks like the 45grn Hornady hornet is the top choice if the gun in question shoots them the parameters being for myself; range were drop from a 100 yds zero passes the 1 1/2" mark 146 yds total drop at 200yds 5.6" and 100 yds windage at 10mph full value 1.78" . issue is will it shoot as the favoured CZ has a 1-16 twist which to all accounts favours the shorter lighter offerings? perhaps someone who has tried might enlighten me in this regards?

This is basically half the windage of the HMR @ 100yds and 3" less drop @ 200yds ( the hmr never was a 200yds gun imo having a drop of 9.6" at that range and a wopping great 16.4" of wind! the .222 seems capable of a 30yds advantage in trajectory drop to the 1 1/2" parameter getting to 176 yds at best but a singnificantly less drop @ 200yds by 4" over the weaker hornet windage being roughly equal as makes no matter @ 100yds. However a good 10 grns more powder and shorter barrel life added to that more noise, so as the .243 i already have will run rings round the .222 in the power/ performance stakes and ultimatly its not a 200yd + gun i am personally looking at anyway, it fits inbetween the flatter .222 and the more loopy 17hmr at that range being useable but at its limits. so i think the hornet is going to be the next addition to my own safe, all i have to do now is find one

 

Well i did, a brand new CZ 452 American. So far i am harvesting brass for future re-loads and awaiting my dies comming in from Sinclairs in the states. It certainly has exceeded my expectations so far printing steady 1.3" groups out to 225 yds with RWS factory 46 grn T mantle heads, actually i feel it can do better as i have yet to get a zero wind allowance. My dealer is looking into obtaining these RWS as bullet heads only presently and i have a two boxes of 45 grn Seirras and one box of 40 grn speer to go at a selection of various primers both small pistol and rifle types. Not used it on any game or vermin yet as i am still sort of getting it sussed. Round count is approaching the 100 though so very soon i shall start testing the terminal effects