David BASC Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Dear all, As you may well know the SNP are forming am majority government in Scotland. Although they still wish to bring in licensing for airguns – which BASC will continue to oppose in the Scottish Parliament as well as Westminster, however the SNP have issued this; ‘We do believe that a licensing system for airguns is necessary as action must be taken to ensure that only those who have legitimate need for them have access to them. BASC members would count under this definition, and it would be a priority in drafting legislation to ensure this was the case.’ As and when we have more news I will let you know David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Are you saying that joining the BASC is to be a condition of owning an airgun That sounds strange :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Are you saying that joining the BASC is to be a condition of owning an airgun That sounds strange :blink: No.... being a member would show good reason for owning an airgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 No.... being a member would show good reason for owning an airgun No it wouldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) No it wouldn't Oh please.... have you read the SNP response to BASC.... that is exactly what they said in the QUOTE from them above Here, I'll put it up again in BIG letters so you can perhaps see it! ‘We do believe that a licensing system for airguns is necessary as action must be taken to ensure that only those who have legitimate need for them have access to them. BASC members would count under this definition, and it would be a priority in drafting legislation to ensure this was the case. It is obvious from your post you did not understand the paragraph first time round... perhaps you are a little clearer now :blink: Edited May 9, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Oh please.... have you read the SNP response to BASC.... that is exactly what they said in the QUOTE from them above Here, I'll put it up again in BIG letters so you can perhaps see it! ‘We do believe that a licensing system for airguns is necessary as action must be taken to ensure that only those who have legitimate need for them have access to them. BASC members would count under this definition, and it would be a priority in drafting legislation to ensure this was the case. Being a member of the BASC does not prove you have a legitimate need, try aquiring a centre fire rifle because you have joined the BASC and you would be laughed out of town. All it will mean is that we will now be expecting the BASC to resist legislation that is stands to greatly benefit from and create a conflict of interest from an organisation that is solely there to support its members. It will also cost airgunners more than a FAC. If you can't respond to a post like an adult, go and take your big bag of letters and **** orf back to the nursery with the other children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) If you cannot understand a simple sentence please do not put posts up that others will find silly! BASC have posted a quote from a letter they have received from the SNP stating, quite clearly, if my command of the english language is still as good as it was 10 minutes ago, that being a member of BASC, under legislation they are planning to propose, would satisfy the need to show legitimate need for ownership... The paragraph is not ambiguous, it is not a request for interpretation or discussion, it is a VERY clear statement! Airguns are not the same as centre fire rifles (what a completely ridiculous suggestion) and will never be treated as such.. Any airgun legislation brought in will have to be a very watered down version of firearms legislation and will not and cannot be subject to exactly the same rules.. Now, re-read the QUOTE from the SNP and then tell me which part you find confusing or ambiguous... I will do what I can to aid your understanding, as I'm sure will others! Edited May 9, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 My point is that unless the BASC, of which I am a member, will provide a place to actually use an airgun, how can they be providing a legitimate need. You can join and still have no where to use an airgun. All this will do is provide the BASC with a cut of the action and put it in a position where it can't represent its members fully because it stands to benefit financially itself from the legislation it is supposed to be opposing. It will also lead to having to pay for not only a licence but a further £60 a year to be allowed to keep an airgun regardless of use. The only winner as far as I can see is the BASC itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 My point is that unless the BASC, of which I am a member, will provide a place to actually use an airgun, how can they be providing a legitimate need. You can join and still have no where to use an airgun. All this will do is provide the BASC with a cut of the action and put it in a position where it can't represent its members fully because it stands to benefit financially itself from the legislation it is supposed to be opposing. It will also lead to having to pay for not only a licence but a further £60 a year to be allowed to keep an airgun regardless of use. The only winner as far as I can see is the BASC itself. You are trying to over interprate a simple point. Of course this quote talks about BASC, after all it was a letter written by the SNP to BASC in response to a question from BASC. The law they want to bring in means that to have access to an airgun, you will need good reason. It doesn't say you have to be a member of BASC. You could be a member of a shooting club, you could show permissions as good reason... all exactly as it is now with firearms... you don't have to be a member of BASC to have a FAC. What the SNP have said is that being a member of BASC will satisfy them as to a legitimate need... Why don't you write to BAC and tell them they are just money grabbing and that it's a bad idea! after all, it is soooo easy to get permissions nowadays, perhaps no one will need or want the VERY simple and easy option BASC have secured for it's members! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I fully suspect that there will be a range of 'good reasons' for owning an airgun not just BASC membership! The centre fire analogy is a red herring and you know it! ‘Good reason’ for sec 1 is very clear as I am sure you know so lets not get side tracked on this – what the SNP are proposing is a brand new law, not an amendment to the existing legislation I suspect. As I keep saying BASC will keep opposing this change in legislation, not least of all because it does nothing to prevent idiots form using airgun illegally AND it runs a severe risk of putting yet another hurdle in the way of someone taking up airgunning as a sport / hobby. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 what would be the law reguarding buying an airgun? in scotland ? show permission slips, or club membership or you dont get to own an airgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I fully suspect that there will be a range of 'good reasons' for owning an airgun not just BASC membership! The centre fire analogy is a red herring and you know it! ‘Good reason’ for sec 1 is very clear as I am sure you know so lets not get side tracked on this – what the SNP are proposing is a brand new law, not an amendment to the existing legislation I suspect. As I keep saying BASC will keep opposing this change in legislation, not least of all because it does nothing to prevent idiots form using airgun illegally AND it runs a severe risk of putting yet another hurdle in the way of someone taking up airgunning as a sport / hobby. David David, you were the one that brought up the centre fire analogy on the BBS. My concern is that your post sounded as if you had managed to get the BASC written into the legislation in a way that would not be in the interests of members. Let's say a licence ran for 5 yrs, is it reasonable for an occasional shooter to pay £300 in BASC membership fees for the privilege of having an old airsporter in the cupboard for the odd plink down the garden I can understand that you could provide a home for someone who had problems being legitimate otherwise but in my opinion being a dormant member of any organisation provides nothing but another costly bureaucratic hurdle that would put people off taking part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Yes I did bring up the centerfield analogy in the context of the need to show good reason for section 1 - i.e. land / quarry. And I agree that 'good reason' does not guarantee in any way ability / safety. BUT this proposal from the SNP is unlikely to be an addendum to current sec 1 – but a brand new bit of legislation where ‘good reason’’ is likely to be much less strict for an airgun compared to a full bore or small bore rifle I did not for one moment suggest that anyone could use BASC membership as a ‘good reasons’ for applying for a C/F rifle No one has mentioned anything about costs yet, and as I keep saying, there will be loads of 'good reasons' for having an airgun not just BASC membership! Why on earth you or anyone else would think that BASC would do anything that’s not in the best interests of its members, or indeed the broader shooting community is beyond me. As I have said on other forums, BASC opposes this licensing suggestion not least of all because it’s just another hurdle for legitimate shooters with no real disincentive for criminals! So, going forward – step 1 is for airgunners in Scotland to join BASC to campaign AGAIST the proposal for a new law. If a new law does come in then BASC will campaign to ensure that there are as many ‘good reasons’ as possible for airgunners to possess. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 If a new law does come in then BASC will campaign to ensure that there are as many ‘good reasons’ as possible for airgunners to possess. David lets hope being 18yrs old is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Come on Chaps, it's pretty simples!! To NEED a gun you will only have to provide one of these things. 1. You have a large amount of money and can donate to a relevant 'society'(Masons would be a good one )to ensure you are a responsible gun owner. 2. You know someone in a position of authority who can abuse their position. 3. You are of Landed Gentry and automactically can do what the **** you want. Guns aren't for the likes of us! Crikey, what kind of responsible Government lets it's law abiding citizens have guns?? Only THEY need them! You fools...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I simply cannot understand why any governing body would accept membership of an organisation as justification to own an Airgun.Any blurdy eeejit can (and do) join the BASC and In my mind this would bring the reputation of the organisation under constant threat.Surely the BASC would have to vet potential members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) thing is as soon as you put a law in place for air rifles thay will tend to get tighter and tighter laws just because thay can. in the name of health and safty just like with all firearmes licencing untill it becomes sec 1.then you will get dogooders that will demand the same regulations hear to Edited May 9, 2011 by fruitloop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 thing is as soon as you put a law in place for air rifles thay will tend to get tighter and tighter laws just because thay can. in the name of health and safty just like with all firearmes licencing untill it becomes sec 1.then you will get dogooders that will demand the same regulations hear to Oh yes! We give an inch, and another and another and another and another until one morning we aren't even allowed spud guns. Followed by lots of sheep on forums saying how they have developed a way of bending over to get shafted that doesn't hurt their back quite so much.... Way to go guys, I can feel us coming over all Australian as we speak..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Oh yes! We give an inch, and another and another and another and another until one morning we aren't even allowed spud guns. Followed by lots of sheep on forums saying how they have developed a way of bending over to get shafted that doesn't hurt their back quite so much.... Way to go guys, I can feel us coming over all Australian as we speak..... how true or a open debate on which oil or wax to use for the good shafting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think it would make more sense for membership orgs in Scotland to get their members to lobby their msp new or otherwise to put forward their views in a reasonable and responsible manner let them see we don't have horns the more we speak to them the less they have to rely on duff or biased researchers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Every organisation that operates in Scotland has had equal opportunity to lobby SNP and all the other political parties in the run up to the election. They have also had equal opportunity to contact their members directly and or via their web sites to bring them up to speed with the issues and to ask them to get involved. They have had equal opportunity to post on forums such as this information about the main issues in Scotland and what they are going to do etc. Some have, some have not. One of the Scottish orgs has on its home page a news flash (from 2009) and the latest story is the cold weather ban being lifted in January…finger on the pulse eh? But all ribbing aside, what shooters in Scotland need is to support a robust well-funded and well-resourced defense of their shooting rights – so if your organisation is not delivering bloody well ask them why not- and if you are a shooter in Scotland and not a member of any of the organisations then join NOW and lend your weight to the fight. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 how true or a open debate on which oil or wax to use for the good shafting :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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