243 foxing bullets

[davies8990]

hello have any of you guy got a 601 zkk in 243? am looking to try a few lighter loads for foxing through it (been using 100g) thinking 58g to 75g any ideas on what may work well in my rifle as can be pricy buying lots of diffrent brands @ £25++ a box. also what sort of groups should i be getting @100 yards

thanks in advance

[magnum]

hello have any of you guy got a 601 zkk in 243? am looking to try a few lighter loads for foxing through it (been using 100g) thinking 58g to 75g any ideas on what may work well in my rifle as can be pricy buying lots of diffrent brands @ £25++ a box. also what sort of groups should i be getting @100 yards

thanks in advance

i use horady 75 gr vmax (But i reload )down 1/2" at 100 mts 1.5" at 200 and use sierra 85 gr spiter not as good as the vmax but pretty close 1" at 100 mts and close to 2" at 200 IAN

[landrover]

hornady 58g vmax are very good in my tikka 1:10 twist,fast and flat under a inch@100yds

Edited May 26, 2011 by landrover

[kent]

70-75 grn is the Foxing load for a .243" Hornady V-max have about the best BC in the class. Lighter 55-58 grain stuff is a little short and won't buck the wind like the heavier rounds. Any factory chambered barrel in the cal that will shoot 50's better than 70's at 200yds plus i have yet to see. The 70's also have the edge on terminals

[Devon Fox]

hornady 58g vmax are very good in my tikka 1:10 twist,fast and flat under a inch@100yds

 

Agreed - shoot an inch or less all day long - a very good bullet in my tikka 243

[bk]

The 70gr Nos BT is superb in my Tikka

[Mr_Logic]

58v max shot well for me in 243. 55 nosler was a bit finicky. I standardised on 75 remington when I shot factory. Killed foxes and deer very well.

[al4x]

federal 55grns shoot well in mine which I think have a nosler bullet, but I usually reload with 75grn vmax for foxes or sierra 85 grn soft points both those work very well

[garyb]

75grn Vmax here too

[swift]

I've been using the 58gr v-max for many years for all my foxing and never had a fox get up from one.they shoot flatter then anything else out to 300 yards +

I send them @ 3900 fps and they group into 3/8 of an inch @ 100 yards and are my first choice after trying the different weight bullets from 55gr to 105gr.

[jamie g]

70 grain blizking are good. harder hitting then the 58 vmax. and not to far off the drop of the 58 vmax out to 300. over that and the 70's really come into there own.

not that you will shoot many foxes over these ranges though at night

Edited May 28, 2011 by jamie g

[kent]

I've been using the 58gr v-max for many years for all my foxing and never had a fox get up from one.they shoot flatter then anything else out to 300 yards +

I send them @ 3900 fps and they group into 3/8 of an inch @ 100 yards and are my first choice after trying the different weight bullets from 55gr to 105gr.

 

I am realy suprised by your claim that they are flatter "over 300" the 75 grn will hang onto more of that initial start speed and hence end up shooting flatter, buck wind better at all ranges making it the better choice "ballistically speaking" at least. This is just off experiance of the .6mm calibre and top of my head but i can run exact the figures for you if you like, there is always the chance i am talking rot but i seriously doubt it . I don't doubt for one minute the 58's shoot great in your gun and if thats the case stick to them. But high BC becomes very relivent at the 300+ you mention and start velocity becomes far less relivent.

Indeed 75 grn V-max 6mm bullet at a good velocity will kick the butt of mostly any varmint round at 300 and over whatever the calibre.

[kent]

I am realy suprised by your claim that they are flatter "over 300" the 75 grn will hang onto more of that initial start speed and hence end up shooting flatter, buck wind better at all ranges making it the better choice "ballistically speaking" at least. This is just off experiance of the .6mm calibre and top of my head but i can run exact the figures for you if you like, there is always the chance i am talking rot but i seriously doubt it . I don't doubt for one minute the 58's shoot great in your gun and if thats the case stick to them. But high BC becomes very relivent at the 300+ you mention and start velocity becomes far less relivent.

Indeed 75 grn V-max 6mm bullet at a good velocity will kick the butt of mostly any varmint round at 300 and over whatever the calibre.

 

I ran this through quickload and simply cannot seem to get more than 3695 fps out of this 58 grn load with various powders H4895 which is very popular for lighter bullets in .243 can only get this to 3695 fps. Which powder are you using to get that speed? I get max load of this powder to 45.4 grn and fully exept some guns and some people can and or will (At thier own risk) push that limit but i needed a fair comparisom on speed with a max loading for the 75 grn bullet. Remember that the mentioned load might not be safe in all rifles and you should use correct proceedures and starting loads 200 fps more is quite some gain over this can you fil us in as to how?

 

Speed of course is the relivent thing in flat shooting but the further you get the less the 58 grn holds onto that initial advantage. Running at the 3695fps i could get it is indeed flatter than the 75 grn as you rightly claim @ 300 yds it is 0.22" flatter and @400yds 0.08" flatter. So you might seriously struggle to ever identify that difference though even with perfect groups on paper let alone on a fox.

 

The big thing though is the windage which is the real skill in taking those far out shots @ 300 yds the heavier, slower 75 grn bullet is 2" better and at 400 yds a whole 4" better- based on a 10 mph full value and no matter how fast you run the 58 grn pill your never gonna fill that gap

 

Obviousy people must use what shoots in thier gun but those 75 grn bullets do as i say take some beating out of a .243" terminally and balistically

Edited May 28, 2011 by kent

[Mr_Logic]

I don't trust quick load you know... Certainly with the 243 it seems very cautious. I used to shoot a 55gr Nosler over about 51-52gr of H414, which IIRC was max load for Hodgdon, and that gave me 4000fps or just slightly under. I accept the 70s and 75s are better in the wind, but as a general rule for night time fox work that loadis basically the best there is if it shoots in your rifle. The BC of a 55gr Nosler is better than anything comparable in 224 by a fair margin and you're driving it nearly as fast as a 22-250 with 40gr.

 

If I had a need for long fox shots often, that's my load of choice. Oh, and I think quick load said my rifle would explode and the world would end. It didn't...

[kent]

I don't trust quick load you know... Certainly with the 243 it seems very cautious. I used to shoot a 55gr Nosler over about 51-52gr of H414, which IIRC was max load for Hodgdon, and that gave me 4000fps or just slightly under. I accept the 70s and 75s are better in the wind, but as a general rule for night time fox work that loadis basically the best there is if it shoots in your rifle. The BC of a 55gr Nosler is better than anything comparable in 224 by a fair margin and you're driving it nearly as fast as a 22-250 with 40gr.

 

If I had a need for long fox shots often, that's my load of choice. Oh, and I think quick load said my rifle would explode and the world would end. It didn't...

 

Come on get real, a maximum load in my rifle might blow another up. Quickload works in respect of expected chamber pressure. You can alter pressure by changing brass or primer even in the same rifle and neither of these even get entered in quickload. In general terms its way more accurate than the books. giving out load data like the above is something we should be very carefull about

The reason i used quickload is you might reasonable able to compare the two as a fair comparisom / level playing field , gaining the maximum pressure load for both. Most experianced loaders can and will exceed max loads.

 

By the way the day you see a rifle blow up in someones face is the day you become more carefull with those "pack it in there" loads temprature and rain can both have an adverse effect on pressure so my own proceedure is find the point of more than very mild pressure signs then back off so i know how much tollerance i have for such occurances.

 

claiming a load is the best there is because its faster? why? as shown in my previous post an extra 200 fps makes no difference you can actually find in a practical way being less than a calibre thickness in drop. Windage however can be measured in multiples of inches and is far harder to call (estimate) in the field.

[Mr_Logic]

Note that I said Night time fox work. Night = lower wind than day, and distance judging is more difficult. It's not just about speed, the BC of the 55 Nosler is good too, and the combination is very very good indeed.

 

Granted quickload is a rule of thumb and it does have its uses (as a starting point) but it annoys me to be told (and I don't think you are so please don't take it that way) that my load is unsafe simply because quick load says so.

 

As a basis of bullet comparison I think real world velocities are better. So 4000 for 55gr and 3500 for 70/75.

[swift]

I've tried all the bullet weights for .243 from 55gr to 105gr and like 58gr v-max the best for the job foxing at night out to 300 yards. got good velocity with

70gr 3600fps 75gr 3500fps 87gr 3300 but prefer the 58gr v-max doing 3900 fps. KENT RUN THAT VELOCITY THROUGH QUICKLOAD AND SEE THE DROP DIFFERENCE. that velocity

comes from a 26 inch barrel I had a tikka in .243 could not get any wear near that velocity due to it's 22.5 inch barrel.as for wind sure it has more drift

due to it's weight and lower BC but I never go out in a gale as the foxes act a lot different on those windy nights as they don't hang out and are very jumpy.

and some people think 58gr is to light and don't hit as hard but a foxes weight on average is between 12 lbs to 16 lbs had a few over the year over 20 lbs but

not many so 58gr is plenty after all I must of shot hundreds of foxes with a .22/250 with 50gr nosler ballistic tip. after all each to there own.

[kent]

I've tried all the bullet weights for .243 from 55gr to 105gr and like 58gr v-max the best for the job foxing at night out to 300 yards. got good velocity with

70gr 3600fps 75gr 3500fps 87gr 3300 but prefer the 58gr v-max doing 3900 fps. KENT RUN THAT VELOCITY THROUGH QUICKLOAD AND SEE THE DROP DIFFERENCE. that velocity

comes from a 26 inch barrel I had a tikka in .243 could not get any wear near that velocity due to it's 22.5 inch barrel.as for wind sure it has more drift

due to it's weight and lower BC but I never go out in a gale as the foxes act a lot different on those windy nights as they don't hang out and are very jumpy.

and some people think 58gr is to light and don't hit as hard but a foxes weight on average is between 12 lbs to 16 lbs had a few over the year over 20 lbs but

not many so 58gr is plenty after all I must of shot hundreds of foxes with a .22/250 with 50gr nosler ballistic tip. after all each to there own.

 

i will and quickload is only the load generator, not balistic softwere quicktarget being sepparate. the POINT IS THESE ARE VELOCITIES CLAIMED IN YOUR GUN. I am quite sure someone, somewere can doubtless also get better out of a 75 grn bullet and less out of a 58 grn in which case we are just chasing our tails for evermore. Not saying your telling porkies just trying to set out a level playing field. this is one reason why we load test. i will run it out of intrest but we are no longer on a level playing field

 

Speed governs drop as gravity has less time to act, however balisic co efficient governs windage allowance and also the ability of a bullet to retain the start speed, there is going to be a point in which the 75 grn actually starts bettering the 58 grn in drop as well as windage. before i run the figures i am pretty confident in predicting only marginal drop differences at range and large advantages in windage to the 75,s

 

I don't get this " its not windy at night", "foxes dont like the wind" the night before last i was out lamping foxes in a gale with horizontal rain there was certainly one big dog fox who has never read this thread, unfortunatly he was down hill from us with no backstop and stock behind him

 

Totally agree that a 58 grn v-max will do any fox, indeed i have done them with bullets from 55 grn to 100 grn in 6mm and the 100's had the least reliable kills being far too tough and failing to fully expand / fragment inside the cavity. at some point the 75 will actually become non expanding due to the drop in speed and lighter more frangible bullets will still expand though in a lesser way

 

Again might i ask how this 58 grn load is made up? Pm me if you don't want high presure load info on an open forum

[kent]

Done it!

On your velocities as stated 3500 for 75's and 3900 for 58's (both hornady v-max) the 58 grn is just less than 1/2" flatter at a full 400 yds and the 75 grn is just over 1" better on wind @ 10mph full value. The drop in still air conditions will remain as is but if the wind blows harder say 20mph your looking at 2" advantage to the 75's, even at 5mph we are looking at a straight swap drop for drift at 1/2". REMEMBER these are your stated velocity figures and not a level playing field as you are driving them very much faster than most will or can. To get all the way out to 400yds and see 1/2" drop advantage is it worth it in terms of barrel wear alone?

 

oh 10mph is hardly a gale and you could easy miss a 5mph call at night But if it shoots and you have confidence carry on with them and good luck

Edited May 29, 2011 by kent

[Mr_Logic]

i didn't say it's not windy at night, i said it's LESS windy at night. key difference! and as a general rule of thumb it IS less windy!!

[kent]

i didn't say it's not windy at night, i said it's LESS windy at night. key difference! and as a general rule of thumb it IS less windy!!

oh gosh lets not get into a twist about it at the end of the day its also a darn sight harder to call windage when all you have to go on is the feel of it on your face, no grass swaying, no leaves blowing- perhaps the wind is still there but we just don't see it the same? i know what you mean though Dawn and Dusk winds do generally drop- not sure why?. i actually recon that far more shots are missed or messed up at night due to wind than ranging errors, personally speaking thats why i don't worship speed. what shoots in your gun is formost i certainly wouldn't trade 1 moa + for 1/2 or better ragardles of speed or drift, but between drift and drop its a no brainer for me i will always go for the better windage as this will be the greater error of the two. Its also the fact that i shoot high up in the hills at an exposed location- obviously others wont

[Mr_Logic]

I too would not trade accuracy for speed except for f/tr loads. And even then only up to a point.

[swift]

kent just out of interest what speed do you get from your rifle using 75gr v-max , top velocity I got was 3500 and no were near as accurate as the 58gr got the same accuracy with the 87gr v-max 3/8 group @ 100 yards and can change over with no loss of zero I send these @ 3300 fps and it has a BC .400 that will pee all over the

75gr v-max with a BC.330 and is my choice for shooting over 400 yards but for foxing at night out to 300 yards I like the 58gr v-max. run your velocity you get with

the 75gr and what I get with the 58gr to 300 yards with your quick load.

[kent]

kent just out of interest what speed do you get from your rifle using 75gr v-max , top velocity I got was 3500 and no were near as accurate as the 58gr got the same accuracy with the 87gr v-max 3/8 group @ 100 yards and can change over with no loss of zero I send these @ 3300 fps and it has a BC .400 that will pee all over the

75gr v-max with a BC.330 and is my choice for shooting over 400 yards but for foxing at night out to 300 yards I like the 58gr v-max. run your velocity you get with

the 75gr and what I get with the 58gr to 300 yards with your quick load.

 

. In development of a load i couldn't give a monkeys about speed initially at least its simply the wrong thing to chase to my mind and the .243" winchester will never lack speed with anything being capable of pushing 100 grn max bullets over 3000 fps it is no slow coach. i must say although i have a fair amount of longer range experiance it is not something i indulge in on live quarry if it can be avoided the reason i quoted the 300 and 400 yds dope for the 75 and 58 v-max is you previously stated the 58 was the best at "over 300 yds". You now say its the 87 grn v-max thats better over 300 yds not the 58 as previously claimed, but then again you also say it has the same zero! that my good sir is near impossible, it might well be near ie. within and inch or even 1/2" at 100 but at more distant ranges it will be nothing like. When talking "which is the best bullet for a .243" the fact is the choice is subjective to many things primarilly if it shoots in your own gun. Can i ask were is this conversation going as we seem to be going back to the begining with a fresh start and point of view?

[swift]

Kent lets sort this out I said a.243 will shoot the 58gr v-max flatter then anything else out to 300 yards. you said I am really surprised by your claim that they are

flatter over 300 yards then 75gr will hang onto more of that initial start speed and hence end up shooting flatter.the fact is they don't depending on your scope height

they are 1.5 to 2 inches flatter out to 300 yards then the 75gr, and that's at the speed I can send them from a 26 inch barrel 3500 fps you still not replied with the speed you send them at a guess it will be a lot less.as for the 87gr v-max they are what I use for day time long range shooting feeding crows rabbits and a bit of fun shooting

steel gongs out to 800 yards.but just love the 58gr v-max for foxing at night point and squirt to 300 yards as they tick all the boxes very fast very flat very accurate

and very explosive, I'm not the sort of guy who buys a .220 swift and run it at .222 velocity.