Sprocket Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Been a Spaniel man for ever. Have trained loads of them and helped others with theirs. Just taken on a 3 month old GWP - which if I like, I will keep, If I don't the breeder is happy to take her back (Knowing full well that I will put the basics in to a high standard). Question is:- Does anybody have experience with GWPs? Are they usually slow to mature? At 12 weeks old (only a baby) this one wants to be around you all the time but gives the impression that she can switch on and off when she wishes. Is this normal? At what age do they usually switch on and start to focus on the tasks in hand? Any help would be appreciated. Cheers Sprocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I thInk every dog is different but on the whole yes they are slower to train than a lab or springer. I found getting mine steady on point took the longest as the dog needs to be quite mature and well behaved not to rush in. I then had an issue getting mine to flush because he became to steady! Having said that he is my first Gundog so I was learning as much as he was. Good luck with her. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 ah dear sprocket this will be an eye opener! They are indeed slow to mature I don't think mine has at 4 but she does switch onto anything involving game very fast. At the moment do the basics and start play retrieving, retrieving with mine has been the hardest thing to really get going. Dummies she couldn't really give two hoots with and will do 3 or 4 retrieves before getting bored. Despite appearances they are very intelligent and certainly mine is very laid back, she has a seasons beating under her belt as well as coming out lamping pretty much since I got her. They do love to be with you all the time, much of the training depends on what you got one for but so far mine seems able to turn her head to most things. We beat on a fairly large shoot and she has been a revelation, the tendancy to point works quite well in the line with her being very easy to get steady. Of course the downsides are get a decent point going and a bird that doesn't want to flush from deep cover and you do end up using your stick to prompt it, but get a good flush going and she just stands still so very different from the average springer. Overall far from an easy dog but pretty rewarding in the end, I assume yours don't live in but mine does and is one of the most chilled dogs round the house I've ever had. As a few on here will confirm go lamping and she goes to sleep on the back seat and just has a look about when a shots taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwen3513 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 What an excellant choice, i had a GWP, fairly bolshy male, very strong hunting instint, unfortunatley as i was late starting his training at 14mths he had learnt to self hunt and chase, his pointing was strong, but he wouldnt hold it for long and would self flush and chase, this was hard work to correct, but we got there in the end and he would hold point until asked to 'put up' then he would go in hard, flush the bird and watch it away. he also loved retrieving, especially water. best lesson learnt get the sit to flush in early. good luck with your GWP hope to see some pics jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 A lot depends on the lines, many uk bred dogs are starting to get a bit soppy and are not the hard hunters they are meant to be. Very slow to mature, very inteligent, way different from any springer i have experianced though as both are hunting dogs the meathods are similar and you should adapt well. Expect hell during the adolecance phase then out the other end a great dog most are 3yrs before they show thier best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thanks for the replies, it looks like I have a challenging time ahead. Would usually give an update after a few weeks (Spaniel) but looks like GWP one could take a little longer (Years?) Oh well here we go - playtime pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thanks for the replies, it looks like I have a challenging time ahead. Would usually give an update after a few weeks (Spaniel) but looks like GWP one could take a little longer (Years?) Oh well here we go - playtime pup. Oh you can train them quick, its just they can become a handfull at the time you would normally start to have a fairly usefull springer. Hopefully it won't happen, just better if you expect it a good one will challenge you and try and take leadership in the relationship and then again and again and again, eventually they will give in but it can be a slog (like i say many English lines are much soppier but they can also lack that which makes them so very usefull) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Oh you can train them quick, its just they can become a handfull at the time you would normally start to have a fairly usefull springer. Hopefully it won't happen, just better if you expect it a good one will challenge you and try and take leadership in the relationship and then again and again and again, eventually they will give in but it can be a slog (like i say many English lines are much soppier but they can also lack that which makes them so very usefull) Kent. Thanks for comments. I will try to read her readiness for moving onto the next step (as with any dog). From your comments it looks like my patience will pay dividends. I'm not expecting rapid development - but along the same lines I will not allow her to take the mickey. Seems like my normal "Kind,Firm but Fair" training method should work. Sprocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 should be fine if you've UK lines you stand a good chance of a good dog, some of the really hot dogs with lots of foreign blood send their owners that mad they need a lab as well Whichever you get it will outwork the spaniels, mine goes out on a shoot day does 6 drives and when everything and everybody is just keen to get on the wagon she is looking for the next one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidment78 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I have a short hair and she is totally bonkers! 18 months now and half as mad as before but twice as mad as most! Brilliant fun and really starting to show form now. Totally gun shy last month and now not at all bothered so my thoughts is she was having a stroppy day! Loves the little lass (9 month old daughter) and though I have been at times totally at a loss with her in the first year now she is just ace (mostly) Good luck, people give up on these as they are a hard dog but I am so glad I managed to keep it together and see it through. (planning our second one in about 18 months so must be mad) Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hi there Sprocket, I think if you've the patience you'll end up with a fantastic dog. I know someone who has trained them for years and they are incredible to watch. My GSP was a nightmare in the early years as her instict to hunt and range out was just too much for a novice trainer like me but in time she became a really steady 'pointer'...it's quite rewarding sending her on to unaware young rabbits then whispering 'steady' and watch her go rock solid on point just a few yards short I've watched this guys GWP's sent on 3-400 yard blind retrieves, then sent in tandem so while one is going out, the other is coming back (both succesfully). During a winter's duck/goose shooting foray one of his bitches was taken 70-80 yards up a swollen fast running river during a session and released in order for her to 'land' where the bird lay snagged in an overhanging tree on the opposite bank, sadly I wasn't there but have been told it was the retrieve of a lifetime They do appear to be a versatile dog..... My little springer I had off Steve is still a 'shy one' but she's a great little mutt (and a doddle to train compared to the pointer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 al4x. you say x6 drives on a shoot, is that beating or picking up? Will they hit rough cover or am I expecting too much? Maidment78. Glad you managed to see it through, probably very rewarding after all the effort you've applied. Ziplex. Good to hear the springer is going well (I will let Steve know). Is the guy with the GWPs local to us? If so is it possible to forward me his contact details so that I can see one in action. Cheers Sprocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 al4x. you say x6 drives on a shoot, is that beating or picking up? Will they hit rough cover or am I expecting too much? Maidment78. Glad you managed to see it through, probably very rewarding after all the effort you've applied. Ziplex. Good to hear the springer is going well (I will let Steve know). Is the guy with the GWPs local to us? If so is it possible to forward me his contact details so that I can see one in action. Cheers Sprocket He can be a bit reserved but really knows his stuff so would be ideal for you, I will give him a ring tomorrow and ask.......will pm you his number if he's open to it, will let you know. (he's based about 20 minutes south of Bristol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 thats beating sprocket, Obviously its not their real intended use but she works very well. Very interesting compared to a springer as they work far slower and stop when they find something. Early season it can be a little tiring as birds are slow to flush but when they know whats up they flush nicely. You'll also find they naturally stop when you get a flush going. Mine doesn't dive into brambles etc but now has a way of crawling in on her belly, comical to watch but does the job. If she doesn't want to go in its a usual sign there is nothing in there, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Whichever you get it will outwork the spaniels, mine goes out on a shoot day does 6 drives and when everything and everybody is just keen to get on the wagon she is looking for the next one I have heard this so many times, and it is nonsense normally spouted by someone who has never seen a DECENT spaniel. Yes there are plenty spaniels around, but good ones with lots of drive and stamina to match are few and far between. Edited August 11, 2011 by WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I have heard this so many times, and it is nonsense normally spouted by someone who has never seen a DECENT spaniel. Yes there are plenty spaniels around, but good ones with lots of drive and stamina to match are few and far between. They are different dogs for different purposes i think. A spaniel i expect to work "in" a hedgeline one end to the other focusing on the other side into the shooter a GWP should generally be expected to work "along side" till it winds something, points then flushes on command (usually on the wrong side of the hedge) 50/50 chance of getting right side with the spaniel only 10% at best with the GWP. So not the best for Rabbits or low flying birds in these locations. On open country heathland, moor etc the GWP is far faster and wider ranging. IF the quarry holds while your dog is on point awaiting your arrival the bag will be far greater. If it doesn't you will only shoot those that flush in range which should equal the haul with a spaniel to my mind. This ofsets its shortcommings on hedgelines. Many see this and think they won't work cover this is dead wrong they will and love it but they know were thier tallents lie. I have never owned a spaniel and perhaps never will, but have shot over lots neither is realy better they are just different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwen3513 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 hi most HPR will know if anything is in the cover before entering, and once it knows its quarry is or isn't there he will take the right action ie enter or move on. My GWP had no hang ups about cover, he would point at the bramble thicket whatever, and once instructed to put up he was straight in there. GWP are tough dogs and take the weather well, as opposed to a thinner smooth coated dog. it will take some getting used to allowing her to range when you are used to keeping spaniels in close, but once accepted as normal it is as great to see them run their beat as it is to watch a spaniel be busy. not sure how near Allan Hender Wirewolf is from you i am sure he will be pretty helpful, over the phone and email if too far for training session. jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) I have heard this so many times, and it is nonsense normally spouted by someone who has never seen a DECENT spaniel. Yes there are plenty spaniels around, but good ones with lots of drive and stamina to match are few and far between. not necessarily nonsense as what pointers do is cover ground far slower, we have some springers out that do 3-5 days a week all season and seriously fit and she outpaces them by the end of the day. That said you don't need to do more than 9-4 as its over by then so its fair enough they collapse in the wagon Edited August 12, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I have heard this so many times, and it is nonsense normally spouted by someone who has never seen a DECENT spaniel. Yes there are plenty spaniels around, but good ones with lots of drive and stamina to match are few and far between. Now now!! :yp: I've seen a decent spaniel or two young man - but as Kent says they are totally different to GWPs and should not be compared as they do the same job but in different ways. As for someone saying the GWP covers the ground slower than a spaniel - not sure how you can work that out either - I expect my spaniels to hunt 10-15 yards each side of me - I expect my GWPs to range as far as the cover/ground permits, my GWPs are anything but slow! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Now now!! :yp: I've seen a decent spaniel or two young man - but as Kent says they are totally different to GWPs and should not be compared as they do the same job but in different ways. As for someone saying the GWP covers the ground slower than a spaniel - not sure how you can work that out either - I expect my spaniels to hunt 10-15 yards each side of me - I expect my GWPs to range as far as the cover/ground permits, my GWPs are anything but slow! Mike Touche Mike But back to the original comment and my response, run any HPR for a day the way they are meant to be run and damn sure they will be looking for the wagon at the end of day (IMHO, learning from someone who knows a thing or two about them ). Not comparable breeds bring things nicely to a conclusion I would say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 not necessarily nonsense as what pointers do is cover ground far slower, we have some springers out that do 3-5 days a week all season and seriously fit and she outpaces them by the end of the day. That said you don't need to do more than 9-4 as its over by then so its fair enough they collapse in the wagon what? GWP's cover the ground slower? No way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.