Optimum Game Weight (OGW)

[wymberley]

Dekers,

Before we get too tied up, it's necessary to take into account that we're discussing words from a foreign language. I was half thinking that an English translation from the American "optimum" may well have been "maximum". In my ignorance, when I had a play I took it that the figure (pounds, weight) in the OGW column was the maximum adviseable for that particular set of conditions entered into the programme - sorry, program.

Cheers

[njc110381]

I'd read optimum as the ideal, so mid way between sensible minimum and maximum.

 

I think when it's used it suggests a general purpose (body/heart and lung) shot at an average (100-200 yard) range. Therefore the optimum bullet weight for a Deer neck shot would probably be similar to the optimum weight for a body shot on an animal that weighs about the same as a Deer's neck? So about a Fox perhaps? So a 75gr V-Max would be optimum for Fox, and also pretty good as a neck shot only Deer bullet.

 

There will always be variation to what people see as ideal but I like to think that bullet manufacturers, some of which put the CPX game class on their ammunition packaging, know what they are talking about.

 

Just because the box of .338 Win Mag ammo I have in the safe says CPX3. Elk, Bear, Thin skinned dangerous game on it - doesn't mean that I couldn't head shoot an Elephant or texas heart shoot a muntjac. It simply means at average range and with a heart/lung shot you will get adequate penetration with adequate expansion to do the job on that size of quarry. It's a bit heavy for small Deer but kind of works. It's a bit small for anything huge, but would probably work. Optimum species size for that bullet is Elk! It's quite simple really!

[apache]

i my self have witnessed cattle attempted to bo shot with a .22rf one shot 8 times each time getting up (head shots) to my great shame i didn't step in earlier ,i finished the animal myself with a captive bolt,on another occasion shot 4 times point blank to the head ,the animal in question a stock bull just flinching,was eventualy shot with a 12g dead instantly,as for the killing of cattle with a .410 i have done it many times point blank head shots only,,,and found the calibre adequate for the job,however ,the humane slaughter assosiation recomends .410 NOT be used for the killing of cattle as in there opinion the penetration,(brain damage )was not sufficient,i my self however do recomend the .410 .any guage shotguns should only be used point blank and to the head,,unless firing a slug then you can have distance.

The HSA and British Cattle Veterinary Association produce a booklet on Emergency Slaughter in Cattle. I quote from it:

 

The Free Bullet Weapon

This is generally in the form of a 0.32 calibre humane killer or pistol, or a 0.22 calibre rim-fire rifle

 

The Shotgun

A 12, 16, 20, 28 or .410 bore shotgun may be used to kill cattle, using number 4, 5 or 6 birdshot

 

A number 6 pellet from a .410 has the same energy and penetration whatever gauge of firearm it leaves. If you shoot a cow/bull in the correct place it will die if you use a .410 or a .22 rimfire rifle.

[njc110381]

If I remember correctly some animals need to be shot front on slightly off centre of the cross drawn between the eyes and ears? Is that because perhaps the skull is too thick if you hit it square in the middle, and could be the reason some people fail to get a one shot kill?

[Dekers]

There we go then, chuck out the word Optimum and replace it with usable/ok/works and we are back to what everyone knows, a wide range of ammo/calibres, for use on differing quarry in differing circumstances.

 

In simple terms, chuck out the phrase Optimum Game Weight as it is meaningless!

 

ATB!

Edited August 27, 2011 by Dekers

[apache]

If I remember correctly some animals need to be shot front on slightly off centre of the cross drawn between the eyes and ears? Is that because perhaps the skull is too thick if you hit it square in the middle, and could be the reason some people fail to get a one shot kill?

 

No. you go midline, but in some animals (horse) then you need to move upwards as due to the elongated head you would miss the brain aiming for the middle of the cross.

[Dekers]

No. you go midline, but in some animals (horse) then you need to move upwards as due to the elongated head you would miss the brain aiming for the middle of the cross.

 

The topic is wondering, but frankly this simply confirms much of what has been said.

 

What is the point of any discussion of OGW?!

 

ATB!

[njc110381]

Not sure really, but every bullet has one!

 

I'm not sure how you base your arguement that there is no such thing? It's not an exact science, rather a guide. If you want to put that guide into figures on paper then you could take a number of a species shot with a number of bullet weights and find which one worked the best. That bullet would be the optimum for that purpose.

 

Lets put it to you another way. You have a 3.5t trailer to tow. Would you use A. A 1.1 Ford Fiesta, B. A 3.0 Toyota Land Cruiser (haha, landy knockers pick the bones out of that one!) or C. A 700bhp Volvo VH16 truck? All will do it, but only one is the optimum given those choices.

 

An optimum exists in everything we do, like it or not.

[Dekers]

Not sure really, but every bullet has one!

 

I'm not sure how you base your arguement that there is no such thing? It's not an exact science, rather a guide. If you want to put that guide into figures on paper then you could take a number of a species shot with a number of bullet weights and find which one worked the best. That bullet would be the optimum for that purpose.

 

Lets put it to you another way. You have a 3.5t trailer to tow. Would you use A. A 1.1 Ford Fiesta, B. A 3.0 Toyota Land Cruiser (haha, landy knockers pick the bones out of that one!) or C. A 700bhp Volvo VH16 truck? All will do it, but only one is the optimum given those choices.

 

An optimum exists in everything we do, like it or not.

 

 

As post 25.......

 

Optimum for a specific shot at a specific target at a specific distance with a specific entry point, then perhaps yes, optimum game weight for other shots.. NO, just a general guide

 

ATB!

[wymberley]

Not sure really, but every bullet has one!

 

I'm not sure how you base your arguement that there is no such thing? It's not an exact science, rather a guide. If you want to put that guide into figures on paper then you could take a number of a species shot with a number of bullet weights and find which one worked the best. That bullet would be the optimum for that purpose.

 

Lets put it to you another way. You have a 3.5t trailer to tow. Would you use A. A 1.1 Ford Fiesta, B. A 3.0 Toyota Land Cruiser (haha, landy knockers pick the bones out of that one!) or C. A 700bhp Volvo VH16 truck? All will do it, but only one is the optimum given those choices.

 

An optimum exists in everything we do, like it or not.

Got a feeling it's an "or not".

[corvid wings]

No. you go midline, but in some animals (horse) then you need to move upwards as due to the elongated head you would miss the brain aiming for the middle of the cross.

actualy for older cattle and bulls you do not shoot midline,the muzzle should be placed 1.5cm to the side of the ridge running down the centre of the forehead.

[corvid wings]

If I remember correctly some animals need to be shot front on slightly off centre of the cross drawn between the eyes and ears? Is that because perhaps the skull is too thick if you hit it square in the middle, and could be the reason some people fail to get a one shot kill?

yes you spot on ,

[apache]

actualy for older cattle and bulls you do not shoot midline,the muzzle should be placed 1.5cm to the side of the ridge running down the centre of the forehead.

Have you got a reference to back that up?

[corvid wings]

Have you got a reference to back that up?

can soon dig out one of my old work books if you insist ?

[apache]

can soon dig out one of my old work books if you insist ?

The last cow I shot with a .22LR was a mature (10 years+) cow with a ruptured uterus. Had no firearm with me so borrowed the farmer's gun. Stone dead with 1 bullet midline, centre of eye to ear cross. Cut a live calf out of her so not a dead loss.

 

There are a lot of these ideas banded about by people who were told something by a friend in the pub so it must be true. I wouldn't chose a .22RF as a tool of choice for a bull but I have shot them midline with it. All have died. If I need to borrow any sort of weapon I ask first for a shotgun. My preference is a 12G - very safe and very very effective. At close range no where near as messy as most people imagine.

[corvid wings]

The last cow I shot with a .22LR was a mature (10 years+) cow with a ruptured uterus. Had no firearm with me so borrowed the farmer's gun. Stone dead with 1 bullet midline, centre of eye to ear cross. Cut a live calf out of her so not a dead loss.

 

There are a lot of these ideas banded about by people who were told something by a friend in the pub so it must be true. I wouldn't chose a .22RF as a tool of choice for a bull but I have shot them midline with it. All have died. If I need to borrow any sort of weapon I ask first for a shotgun. My preference is a 12G - very safe and very very effective. At close range no where near as messy as most people imagine.

yes i agree shotguns do a grand job of dropping a beast never seen one get up after that ,i have seen them get up after .22 when an animal or human for that matter is born its head is in plates,i think 3 ,this is to aid the birth of the said animal so its head can compact a little ,after birth the said plates start joining fusing, the older the animal becomes the thicker the joins become,this is why its not recomended to shoot midline ,but 1.5 cm to the side of the midline,

[kent]

I have just examined some of my Deer sculls and the sculls are pretty thick along this centreline line though it would be easy to shoot clean through with a .22 rf. (i was shooting through 3" of solid Cedar @ 50yds this summer with mine) I have never shot a cow but used to split the sculls with a hatchet and feed to ferrets in the days before mad cow and they are a fair amount thicker so i can see some scence in this off centreline approach but not much at "end of the muzzle ranges. The same shot is recomended for humane destruction of deer though i always take the back of the head shot as it gives a bigger and better area of the brain cavity available i think and its not always possible to press the muzzle right onto the sweet spot and needs the correct angle

[njc110381]

Have you got a reference to back that up?

 

Basic Butchering of Livestock and Game, by John J Mettler DVM. "Shoot or stun the calf just to the left or right of the point at which imaginary lines from eye to horn intersect, as shown".

 

I'm sure there are different methods employed by different people. I seem to remember Apache being quite a strong voice in this sort of topic in the past - backed up by being in that line of work I think? As such I can't really argue as the only thing I have to back my case is a book written by a vet!