30-06 UP or DOWN

[Bali]

oh yes,does these bullets you have got look like barns TSX http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/

Barns are a great bullet if you decide to try them,Ive had great results from roe deer to Elan bulls in Africa

 

Thanks Ackley now we are getting somewhere your Barnes look very similar to my UKgunroom bullets http://www.thegunroomuk.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67_72&products_id=240

[Ackley]

Thanks Ackley now we are getting somewhere your Barnes look very similar to my UKgunroom bullets http://www.thegunroomuk.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67_72&products_id=240

yes I looked them up,similar design with the rings on the bearing surface,this allows you to be able to drive them harder,hence the high powder charge required,there is no need at all to crimp as it may cause problems on the bullet release due to the rings on the bullet

[chockmoose]

Engaging Ackley (for the last time) and wait for the flames...

 

mate dont get invloved these people havnt got a clue,they read it in a book and they think its gospel

let them get on with it,they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck

Oh wow.. 'these people havnt got a clue' You have a mirror handy?

'they read it in a book' Care to point out the relevant quotes from these books or is it just how one learned reloading oneself? Maybe one was sooo good one did not read books.

People we have a genius here let us all bow down at the altar and abase ourselves.

'they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck ' Consistent neck tension - you are truly arrogant.

This is the only reason not to use a crimp based on your "internet bully behind a keyboard" expertise or did you read that in a book?

 

mate my comment was for Ian not for you

yes we all make mistakes,its long learning curve,some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo whilst other try to ring the very best from there re loading

always best to ask questions I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money

reloading has come a long way since the dark ages which most on here seem to be stuck in

Hmmm trouble is you are still making mistakes and actually not learning but, unfortunately, cannot see it.

You would prefer to shout at and insult people with much more experience. Your belief in your own perfection/knowledge is flawed, it reminds me of a teenager.

 

Teenager - buy one today as they know everything.

 

This quote, 'I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money'

explains much ones reloading has only been about saving time and money.

Please explain - 'some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo' - where in reloading does this produce sub-standard ammunition?

If you have the 'basics' right you will have perfectly acceptable ammunition.

Conceitedness beyond belief.

 

if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work,and please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies

Again a perfectly useless statement not backed up with even a little empirical data.

Your advise is based on 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

is Dangerous advise to give anyone.

This gem 'please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies' shows a couple of things.

1. No real understanding of a crimp. You, with all your transparent expertise are going to tell all the ammunition factories not to crimp and ruin their bullets and brass? I think not.

2. You are a tackle tart - 'all this gear no idea' To tell anyone what to buy is NOT your call, especially if you do not understand how to use it or actually use it.

 

oh yes,does these bullets you have got look like barns TSX http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/

Barns are a great bullet if you decide to try them,Ive had great results from roe deer to Elan bulls in Africa

I know that it is not netiquette to pick on ones spelling in general but in this case I feel it may be warranted. I'm sure the Eland do not give a hoot but I will say something.

After going to ones web site and noting many such similar mistakes - not just typos. I came to the possible conclusion that one may suffer dyslexia (and if one does I profoundly apologise).

Or the advise and web design were done without engaging the brain, basically unprofessional.

One would have made, at least, a small effort in a site advertising wares to make sure that it did in fact look professional.

It just looks like an excuse to get others to pay for the expensive machine by treating them as idiots.

I see the desire to be the head of one's particular clique with doe-eyed followers in tow somewhat sad when one could use this energy to gently educate

instead of the bully like 'oh Lee stuff is c-rap' type of belligerence that you normally espouse.

 

I hope that you try to understand what I say. This is not an insult just an attempt to open your eyes and a request that you reign in the unwanted c-rap.

It is easy to see why you get banned from forums, so please take a little advise, ease up take a deep breath and loose the attitude, the offhand comments etc.

Now believe me I can already see your reaction/retort to this and that you will have the hump, honestly that would just prove my point.

I am sure that you may have a little something positive to disseminate regarding reloading but currently the way you do it stinks.

You are in all probability in real life an OK bloke, its just your written approach is far too aggressive.

 

Reloading is a craft, there are many ways to approach and produce acceptable ammunition. There is no ONE way that is better than all the others.

You cannot teach people by slapping them in the face.

Acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me, by the same token what works for you may not work for me so bear that in mind

before you give out your 'advise'.

It is also a craft that one needs to be careful and professional about when giving out advise, do you forget that accidents can happen?

How would you feel if the advise you gave out turned someone into the unwitting victim of a hand grenade in their face by making sweeping statements?

eg. 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

Has not happened yet? Think yourself lucky then.

If you cannot be ar-sed to write carefully your advise (spelling etc checked) why would/should anyone trust what you write?

It shows that you really do not respect your fellow man.

 

THIS IS RELOADING AND THERE ARE DANGERS ATTACHED TO THE PROCESS.

 

Bottom line, there are many keyboard warriors out there - why do you desire to be at the top of this list?

 

All the best.

[Ackley]

:yp:

Engaging Ackley (for the last time) and wait for the flames...

 

 

Oh wow.. 'these people havnt got a clue' You have a mirror handy?

'they read it in a book' Care to point out the relevant quotes from these books or is it just how one learned reloading oneself? Maybe one was sooo good one did not read books.

People we have a genius here let us all bow down at the altar and abase ourselves.

'they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck ' Consistent neck tension - you are truly arrogant.

This is the only reason not to use a crimp based on your "internet bully behind a keyboard" expertise or did you read that in a book?

 

 

Hmmm trouble is you are still making mistakes and actually not learning but, unfortunately, cannot see it.

You would prefer to shout at and insult people with much more experience. Your belief in your own perfection/knowledge is flawed, it reminds me of a teenager.

 

Teenager - buy one today as they know everything.

 

This quote, 'I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money'

explains much ones reloading has only been about saving time and money.

Please explain - 'some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo' - where in reloading does this produce sub-standard ammunition?

If you have the 'basics' right you will have perfectly acceptable ammunition.

Conceitedness beyond belief.

 

 

Again a perfectly useless statement not backed up with even a little empirical data.

Your advise is based on 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

is Dangerous advise to give anyone.

This gem 'please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies' shows a couple of things.

1. No real understanding of a crimp. You, with all your transparent expertise are going to tell all the ammunition factories not to crimp and ruin their bullets and brass? I think not.

2. You are a tackle tart - 'all this gear no idea' To tell anyone what to buy is NOT your call, especially if you do not understand how to use it or actually use it.

 

 

I know that it is not netiquette to pick on ones spelling in general but in this case I feel it may be warranted. I'm sure the Eland do not give a hoot but I will say something.

After going to ones web site and noting many such similar mistakes - not just typos. I came to the possible conclusion that one may suffer dyslexia (and if one does I profoundly apologise).

Or the advise and web design were done without engaging the brain, basically unprofessional.

One would have made, at least, a small effort in a site advertising wares to make sure that it did in fact look professional.

It just looks like an excuse to get others to pay for the expensive machine by treating them as idiots.

I see the desire to be the head of one's particular clique with doe-eyed followers in tow somewhat sad when one could use this energy to gently educate

instead of the bully like 'oh Lee stuff is c-rap' type of belligerence that you normally espouse.

 

I hope that you try to understand what I say. This is not an insult just an attempt to open your eyes and a request that you reign in the unwanted c-rap.

It is easy to see why you get banned from forums, so please take a little advise, ease up take a deep breath and loose the attitude, the offhand comments etc.

Now believe me I can already see your reaction/retort to this and that you will have the hump, honestly that would just prove my point.

I am sure that you may have a little something positive to disseminate regarding reloading but currently the way you do it stinks.

You are in all probability in real life an OK bloke, its just your written approach is far too aggressive.

 

Reloading is a craft, there are many ways to approach and produce acceptable ammunition. There is no ONE way that is better than all the others.

You cannot teach people by slapping them in the face.

Acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me, by the same token what works for you may not work for me so bear that in mind

before you give out your 'advise'.

It is also a craft that one needs to be careful and professional about when giving out advise, do you forget that accidents can happen?

How would you feel if the advise you gave out turned someone into the unwitting victim of a hand grenade in their face by making sweeping statements?

eg. 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

Has not happened yet? Think yourself lucky then.

If you cannot be ar-sed to write carefully your advise (spelling etc checked) why would/should anyone trust what you write?

It shows that you really do not respect your fellow man.

 

THIS IS RELOADING AND THERE ARE DANGERS ATTACHED TO THE PROCESS.

 

Bottom line, there are many keyboard warriors out there - why do you desire to be at the top of this list?

 

All the best.

LOL what ever I cant even be bothered to reply to your ramblings,you cant buy experience your also cant get it from a book.

is that the best you can come up with "spelling" wow wee what a hughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fault that is

go figure

I have a feeling your a big noise on other forums but feel the need to hide behind another user name on here,I wonder why :yp: grow a set mate

Edited October 14, 2011 by Ackley

[Dougy]

Well, besides the input from one of the previous posts of which i read, and also has some good advice to you bali, i can only put you back on topic or hopefully give some advice from actuall experience i have gained, not, i must add from reading books or picking through the vast amount of peoples oppinions put on the "www"

 

I shoot a 30.06 which sole purpose was to shoot Boar in Croatia. I first tried 200grn Nosler Acu Bond. only to find all though dropping Boar did not impart enough damage to give a clean kill (in my experience)drilled straight through I also tried Hornady 150grn SST which did drop and kill on the spot each time without fail, also numerous Deer.

 

So i can say from now on thats what i use and have loaded plenty for my trip again later this year. I use 57grn (start at 55grn's)of N160, accuracy is amazing clover leaf @ 100 yds and rite out to 400yds clanging 15"gongs i found consistantly boring.

Try other bullets by all means but for me i will stick to what i have found to be an exellent combination.

 

Also dont forget about altering your seating depth

 

All the best and i hope you sort out a good combo.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Dougy

[Bali]

Thank you for your advice Dougy is it possible to give a load substituting the powder with V140 as l have just bought a new tub

Thanks Nick

[Harnser]

Engaging Ackley (for the last time) and wait for the flames...

 

 

Oh wow.. 'these people havnt got a clue' You have a mirror handy?

'they read it in a book' Care to point out the relevant quotes from these books or is it just how one learned reloading oneself? Maybe one was sooo good one did not read books.

People we have a genius here let us all bow down at the altar and abase ourselves.

'they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck ' Consistent neck tension - you are truly arrogant.

This is the only reason not to use a crimp based on your "internet bully behind a keyboard" expertise or did you read that in a book?

 

 

Hmmm trouble is you are still making mistakes and actually not learning but, unfortunately, cannot see it.

You would prefer to shout at and insult people with much more experience. Your belief in your own perfection/knowledge is flawed, it reminds me of a teenager.

 

Teenager - buy one today as they know everything.

 

This quote, 'I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money'

explains much ones reloading has only been about saving time and money.

Please explain - 'some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo' - where in reloading does this produce sub-standard ammunition?

If you have the 'basics' right you will have perfectly acceptable ammunition.

Conceitedness beyond belief.

 

 

Again a perfectly useless statement not backed up with even a little empirical data.

Your advise is based on 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

is Dangerous advise to give anyone.

This gem 'please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies' shows a couple of things.

1. No real understanding of a crimp. You, with all your transparent expertise are going to tell all the ammunition factories not to crimp and ruin their bullets and brass? I think not.

2. You are a tackle tart - 'all this gear no idea' To tell anyone what to buy is NOT your call, especially if you do not understand how to use it or actually use it.

 

 

I know that it is not netiquette to pick on ones spelling in general but in this case I feel it may be warranted. I'm sure the Eland do not give a hoot but I will say something.

After going to ones web site and noting many such similar mistakes - not just typos. I came to the possible conclusion that one may suffer dyslexia (and if one does I profoundly apologise).

Or the advise and web design were done without engaging the brain, basically unprofessional.

One would have made, at least, a small effort in a site advertising wares to make sure that it did in fact look professional.

It just looks like an excuse to get others to pay for the expensive machine by treating them as idiots.

I see the desire to be the head of one's particular clique with doe-eyed followers in tow somewhat sad when one could use this energy to gently educate

instead of the bully like 'oh Lee stuff is c-rap' type of belligerence that you normally espouse.

 

I hope that you try to understand what I say. This is not an insult just an attempt to open your eyes and a request that you reign in the unwanted c-rap.

It is easy to see why you get banned from forums, so please take a little advise, ease up take a deep breath and loose the attitude, the offhand comments etc.

Now believe me I can already see your reaction/retort to this and that you will have the hump, honestly that would just prove my point.

I am sure that you may have a little something positive to disseminate regarding reloading but currently the way you do it stinks.

You are in all probability in real life an OK bloke, its just your written approach is far too aggressive.

 

Reloading is a craft, there are many ways to approach and produce acceptable ammunition. There is no ONE way that is better than all the others.

You cannot teach people by slapping them in the face.

Acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me, by the same token what works for you may not work for me so bear that in mind

before you give out your 'advise'.

It is also a craft that one needs to be careful and professional about when giving out advise, do you forget that accidents can happen?

How would you feel if the advise you gave out turned someone into the unwitting victim of a hand grenade in their face by making sweeping statements?

eg. 'if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work'

Has not happened yet? Think yourself lucky then.

If you cannot be ar-sed to write carefully your advise (spelling etc checked) why would/should anyone trust what you write?

It shows that you really do not respect your fellow man.

 

THIS IS RELOADING AND THERE ARE DANGERS ATTACHED TO THE PROCESS.

 

Bottom line, there are many keyboard warriors out there - why do you desire to be at the top of this list?

 

All the best.

Well said sir and I concur .Harnser .

[Harnser]

:yp:

LOL what ever I cant even be bothered to reply to your ramblings,you cant buy experience your also cant get it from a book.

is that the best you can come up with "spelling" wow wee what a hughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fault that is

go figure

I have a feeling your a big noise on other forums but feel the need to hide behind another user name on here,I wonder why :yp: grow a set mate

No you wont be botherd to make a reply because you dont know how to . Some body else sussed you out .

 

Harnser .

[Ackley]

No you wont be botherd to make a reply because you dont know how to . Some body else sussed you out .

 

Harnser .

take your tongue out his backside and grow a set,whats up old man cant you insult people by yourself

another thread ruined by the usual suspect

Edited October 14, 2011 by Ackley

[Ackley]

Thank you for your advice Dougy is it possible to give a load substituting the powder with V140 as l have just bought a new tub

Thanks Nick

 

here you go mate these my help

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/5/73

http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

[davesw]

just a quick question on crimping i thought i read somewhere that the crimp should be in line with the canelure on the bullet head does this mean that bullets with no canelure on the head were designed to have no crimp?

[Ackley]

just a quick question on crimping i thought i read somewhere that the crimp should be in line with the canelure on the bullet head does this mean that bullets with no canelure on the head were designed to have no crimp?

 

basically yes,you can crimp bullets with no canelure but you have to be really careful as it can damage the bullet jacket,I did a test on this years ago crimped a few bullets then pulled them,the jacket on the bullet had a groove (squashed the bullet) all the way around which you dont really want

with modern dies and good brass there is no need to crimp,

in the "olden days" when people reloaded and the bullet was loose in the case they crimped as they were told to do so,now in modern times with better dies,bushing dies better brass and annealing you dont need to as 1 to 2 thou of neck tension will hold any bullet securley

but after all this the usual suspects will post that I am wrong and dont know hat Iam talking about

best to try it for yourself mate then you can make your own mind up,good luck

[Harnser]

Crimping is something that you must try your self and see if it makes any differences .I have crimped all my rifle ammo for many years and have found that the ammo is more accurate .

Ammo used in sporting rifles can be handled several times,through the magazine and in the pockets or where else you keep your ammo before being fired ,the crimp will help to keep the bullets tight in the case .

 

Yes you can crimp any bullet with or with out a canelure . Believe me when a crimped bullet has found its way out of the barrel of a rifle there will be no tell tale marks on the said bullet as to were the crimp was . Try some crimped and some not crimped ,the choice is yours .

 

Harnser .

Edited October 15, 2011 by Harnser

[Underdog]

Crimp or not, my experiance is it is not worth gettin out the pram for except for heavy recoilers and/or tube mags. Your 30 recoils so,,,,,,

 

My old Speer manual has 48grn as a starter for 130grners, 50 grn is listed as a max on your stated powder. This old manuals max listings is usually where I start and as a general rule usually end up two grains over before things come together, you however may find otherwise.

 

My 308 is using a faster powder than yours but I am close to the same dose as you are using in the 06 but in a smaller case and with heavier bullets!

 

I have never used 140 but seen it used and 160, my opinion, it usually likes a case full and slightly compressed.

 

Don't worry about cranking it up in that action! Also them mono bullets usually like being driven fast.

 

Oh and don't go off shooting them in wood! It usually fills the cavity and turns it into a solid! Wet flesh behaves different!

 

U.

[Bali]

Crimp or not, my experiance is it is not worth gettin out the pram for except for heavy recoilers and/or tube mags. Your 30 recoils so,,,,,,

 

My old Speer manual has 48grn as a starter for 130grners, 50 grn is listed as a max on your stated powder. This old manuals max listings is usually where I start and as a general rule usually end up two grains over before things come together, you however may find otherwise.

 

My 308 is using a faster powder than yours but I am close to the same dose as you are using in the 06 but in a smaller case and with heavier bullets!

 

I have never used 140 but seen it used and 160, my opinion, it usually likes a case full and slightly compressed.

 

Don't worry about cranking it up in that action! Also them mono bullets usually like being driven fast.

 

Thanks mate

 

Oh and don't go off shooting them in wood! It usually fills the cavity and turns it into a solid! Wet flesh behaves different!

 

U.

[Bewsher500]

just an observation for those that think a 4" group can't be resolved with a change as fundemental as a powder.

 

I had exactly this problem with a .270, granted not a 30-06, but in the same family.

I tried all manner of charges and OAL on 130 and 150gn bullets without any real gain.

I switched from N165 to N160 and the group size shrank immediately.

 

two rifles I use just do not like N165 for some reason.

[Bali]

I have now loaded a few rounds of 135 grn bullets with N140 @ 51.3 grns will give them ago and see if there is a noticable difference

[Underdog]

I have now loaded a few rounds of 135 grn bullets with N140 @ 51.3 grns will give them ago and see if there is a noticable difference

 

Sounds promising

 

U.

[Underdog]

Did you try them?

 

U

[Bali]

Did you try them?

 

U

 

Sorry underdog not getting back, but no not yet, it has been blowing a gale up here for the past couple of weeks will try again this week

[Underdog]

Sorry underdog not getting back, but no not yet, it has been blowing a gale up here for the past couple of weeks will try again this week

 

No worries,

 

U.