dunganick Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I thought i would do an update for those of you who have been following my attempts to purchase my Howa .223 action . The Action Well yesterday whilst bunny bashing i got a phone call from my dad, he had phoned Brian Fox (of Fox Firearms) The shipment of rifles which we had been waiting to arrive and be proofed in this country since December 15th, didnt have mine in it (despite being told it was out of the proof house 2 weeks ago on the monday and was being sent the same day) We were told by Brian Fox that he had been sent 1/3 the rifles he asked for and we would need to wait another month (like the month ive been waiting since december no doubt). On discovering this, the old man set about looking into different methods of purchasing one. So we rang up Rosalie Mileham of Lambert & Wiltshire who had been advertising a New synthtic .223 blued varmint Rifle (not action, full rifle). Now the price of this (£378) was about £100 more than what i had originally been quoted for a Trade price through Brian Fox for the action only. Hense why i had not bought this gun. However on being quoted the price for the action more recently (after about 6months of constant phone calls and excuses) he now changed his quote for a gunsmith (trade) to £360 plus P+P, this as you can imagine did not quote me happy. So with this we decided to get the new .223 Howa varmint with synthtic stock which is on guntrader. My dad had a long chat with the guys at Lambert & Wiltshire and he wouldnt repeat the chaps opinion of Brain Fox, fair to say he is no fan either. He once ordered 18 rifles from him and recieved 3 (no doubt 6months late as well). He now buys and sells Howa's from other dealers, he loves the rifles and thinks they are great value and quality, but the importer (Brian Fox) is a waste of space. Now the bit you have all been waiting for, If you want a Howa, or any product which Brain Fox (Fox Firearms) stocks, then i would just not bother, he seems unable to remember what he has said to us previously, he changes his mind, opinion and excuses like the weather in this country changes. He is a professional time waster, do not deal with this man unless you can visit him in person. I dont slag off companies for no reason, but i have wasted lots of time since December 15th when i could have bought the rifle i am now going to buy and should be here end of the week (its been on guntrader since december). I have also missed the spring foxing season and will have to wait untill the end of summer to blood it on a fox. The Stock Well after ordering it on the 15th December and one being 'lost' in the post (im yet to be convinced it was ever sent) i am about 3 weeks away from my 2nd stock being sent by Elkridge stock in the states. Hopefully they will bother to get a shipping number with this on so we can moniter its progress, because apparently for $5 it "wasnt worth getting one" for the last stock. However the good news is, as im now buying a gun with a stock (albeit the rubbish flymsy plastic one) i will have something to use untill the Drop in replacement arrives (if it does) The Conclusion If you want to build a Custom stock from Elkridge and a Howa from Fox Firearms, buy a Tikka, it will be quicker and probably cheaper with the number of phone calls me and my dad have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Glad you seen sence in the end Nick Hope you have your .223 soon, be sure to post a pic of the lovely lady once you have her. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Good news in the end Nick Looking forward to how you get on with it when it arrives. How on earth does that guy make a living if he handles his buisness like that. Pity it has taken all this time, but at least you know you will have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno 357 Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 After all this Nick. What lesson have you learnt ? Jonno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 This Sport teaches you a valuble lesson sometimes ...........You get what you pay for ...........By that I mean you tried to save a few bob because of your financial circumstances and it's not worked out the way you intended and ended up costing more . Glad you've seen sense in the end ......Knowing what I know now I would consider the CZ .223 Best of luck Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 After all this Nick. What lesson have you learnt ? Jonno I should have got a tikka deadeye, I am still pretty sure the Howa will be a better gun Once i have it. Afterall it was the importer who was the problem and not the rifle (as i could have bought 'my rifle' from guntrader some 5 or 6months ago. But for the sake of £100 i held on will be glad once all this is behind me. I'm already planning the next centerfire..... variation coming up this august i expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 The licence application process over here can be somewhat drawn out. John --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, tell me about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) . Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dunganick I have seen a lot of posts that made me smile because of their humour on this forum, some a wry smile because of the naivety of the poster, but none that genuinely upsets me as much as the post you have just placed re the Howas. By saying that I am in no way suggesting you do not have a problem or that from your point of view, you see the source of your problem as starting with Brian Fox. BUT I have only known and dealt with Brian Fox for 18 months but in that time I have found him to be 101% honest, true to HIS word and a person that will 'bend over backwards' to help anyone and I really feel you do him a serious misjustice by your damming post. I was also waiting on his latest shipment for a rifle BUT he doesn’t know what is included until the shipment arrives at his premises as is the case with all importers. This is of course after proof, which on this occasion took 3.5 weeks. These circumstances are not of Brian’s making and you cannot hold him responsible for them. Re pricing - he is a man of his word and if he quoted xyz then xyz is what you will pay - no ifs and buts - that’s it. Do remember that all dealers buying from the US state quite clearly prices fluctuate according to the exchange rate. However since there has been no downward reduction of the Dollar to the £ then the prices from last year are still good as far as Brian’s customers are concerned and that I am sure includes you. I therefore suggest you look else where for the reasons behind your disappointment rather than blame one of the Guntrade’s ‘BEST’ and more importantly for those that buy retail directly with him - one of the BEST for them also. If you would like me to act as a 'go between' to help overcome your disappointment or solve the problems you perceive you have with Brian I shall be more than happy to do so. Please email me directly at mry716@hotmail.com ######################################################## One point I should have made in the above was in respec t of your comment as follows, "My dad had a long chat with the guys at Lambert & Wiltshire and he wouldnt repeat the chaps opinion of Brain Fox, fair to say he is no fan either. He once ordered 18 rifles from him and recieved 3 (no doubt 6months late as well)." He now buys and sells Howa's from other dealers , he loves the rifles and thinks they are great value and quality, but the importer (Brian Fox) is a waste of space." No he doesnt - Brian is the ONLY source for Howa's in the UK - PERIOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dunganick I have seen a lot of posts that made me smile because of their humour on this forum, some a wry smile because of the naivety of the poster, but none that genuinely upsets me as much as the post you have just placed re the Howas. By saying that I am in no way suggesting you do not have a problem or that from your point of view, you see the source of your problem as starting with Brian Fox. BUT I have only known and dealt with Brian Fox for 18 months but in that time I have found him to be 101% honest, true to HIS word and a person that will 'bend over backwards' to help anyone and I really feel you do him a serious misjustice by your damming post. I was also waiting on his latest shipment for a rifle BUT he doesn’t know what is included until the shipment arrives at his premises as is the case with all importers. This is of course after proof, which on this occasion took 3.5 weeks. These circumstances are not of Brian’s making and you cannot hold him responsible for them. Re pricing - he is a man of his word and if he quoted xyz then xyz is what you will pay - no ifs and buts - that’s it. Do remember that all dealers buying from the US state quite clearly prices fluctuate according to the exchange rate. However since there has been no downward reduction of the Dollar to the £ then the prices from last year are still good as far as Brian’s customers are concerned and that I am sure includes you. I therefore suggest you look else where for the reasons behind your disappointment rather than blame one of the Guntrade’s ‘BEST’ and more importantly for those that buy retail directly with him - one of the BEST for them also. If you would like me to act as a 'go between' to help overcome your disappointment or solve the problems you perceive you have with Brian I shall be more than happy to do so. Please email me directly at mry716@hotmail.com i wont deal with him, end of, im sure some people get quality service, what i have put in the two 'updates' shows what i have been through. Im sure in my circumstances you would be anoyed as well. I gave as many details in my post as i could regarding what has happened, so as to show a fair history of why i am not pleased with his service. If waiting this long does not bother people then thats fair enough, and they should by all means trade with them. My main problem is the promises which are never met. We were told in decemeber we could expect it 2nd week of jan, we were told in january it would be with me by 2nd week of febuary. We were then told when we rang up and said this was getting silly what is going on. "i need to get around to having them ship it, the paper work is on my desk" We were then also told "maybe i should ring you when i have news" we told him we would rather we kept in contact, but still gave our contact details. We were then told that MY rifle was at the proof house and WOULD be sent monday (2 weeks ago). We then phoned up on friday and were told "there is no .223 heavy barreled blue in this shipment"........ so when was he going to tell us that? it was 2 weeks since he said it would be sent. Like i said im sure many people have 110% smooth transactions, but both me, my father and the gunshop that i am now purchasing the complete rifle from (at a greater cost as its not trade) are by no means fans, and im sorry if he is a great dealer for some.... but his comunication leaves something to be desired as do the consistancy of his excuses. Thanks for the offer to try and sort things, but a 1month (or is that 6months? ) wait for the rifle which i was told would be with me january is a joke. If he cant garuntie what rifles are in the shipment tell me. Dont give me pointless dates which produce nothing but another excuse. Sorry if that sounds very nasty but in my honest opinion the man dosent deserve another chance, he has already had many. I will take my trade somewhere else. I will be canceling my order with Fox tomorrow and the new rifle has already been reserved and will be shipped once RFD details are swapped. One point I should have made in the above was in respec t of your comment as follows, "My dad had a long chat with the guys at Lambert & Wiltshire and he wouldnt repeat the chaps opinion of Brain Fox, fair to say he is no fan either. He once ordered 18 rifles from him and recieved 3 (no doubt 6months late as well)." He now buys and sells Howa's from other dealers , he loves the rifles and thinks they are great value and quality, but the importer (Brian Fox) is a waste of space." No he doesnt - Brian is the ONLY source for Howa's in the UK - PERIOD. sorry, you miss interprited what i meant. He now Buys all the Howa's he can from dealers (being gunshops in this country) and sells them on. Brian is the sole importer and provides all the rifles (occasionally) but this dealer got fed up with not getting what he ordered, so now buys other gunshops' stock. As they actually sell what they have in stock. (many people deal howa's, Litts being one of the big names) I dont mean this to become a personal argument with you, i have given Brian alot of chances and ive just got fed up with the constantly moving deadlines. I have show in my posts why i think this... people can draw from this what they like, i wont rubbish a gun dealer without good reason. In my opinion the above is good reason. If people dont agree then they can deal with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nick, should have gone for a Tikka T3 hope you get it sorted soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Thanks for your reply Dunanick and I am genuinely sorry that you feel the way you do. I have a very wide circle of friends in the shooting world and I have yet to hear a 'bad' word about Brian. I appreciate your frustration re the excessive waiting esp so if you do not get updates and I don't doubt Brian is no different to any of us when it come to remembering everything and everyone he needs to sort/talk to but you really do seem to have been particularly unfortunate regarding constantly poor communications. I personally know the frustration of continuous delays and impossible promises and they all emanate from the US Forwarders (Exporting Companies) simply because since 9/11 exporting from the States is now both unbelievingly complicated and full of more ‘Red Tape’ than any UK Govt dept has ever been. I tried for nearly 2 years to get a couple of rifles here but 3 US dealers let me down simply because it was impossible for them to keep their promises due to Federal interference. On one occasion I knew my shipment left but 3 weeks later found out Govt intervention stopped the export altogether - but no one though to tell me ! However, I understand that due to your ability to buy elsewhere you don't wish to pursue things further but if later you feel I can offer any help to take away that 'bitter' taste of your initial dealings please do email me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Thanks for your reply Dunanick and I am genuinely sorry that you feel the way you do. I have a very wide circle of friends in the shooting world and I have yet to hear a 'bad' word about Brian. I appreciate your frustration re the excessive waiting esp so if you do not get updates and I don't doubt Brian is no different to any of us when it come to remembering everything and everyone he needs to sort/talk to but you really do seem to have been particularly unfortunate regarding constantly poor communications. I personally know the frustration of continuous delays and impossible promises and they all emanate from the US Forwarders (Exporting Companies) simply because since 9/11 exporting from the States is now both unbelievingly complicated and full of more ‘Red Tape’ than any UK Govt dept has ever been. I tried for nearly 2 years to get a couple of rifles here but 3 US dealers let me down simply because it was impossible for them to keep their promises due to Federal interference. On one occasion I knew my shipment left but 3 weeks later found out Govt intervention stopped the export altogether - but no one though to tell me ! However, I understand that due to your ability to buy elsewhere you don't wish to pursue things further but if later you feel I can offer any help to take away that 'bitter' taste of your initial dealings please do email me. thanks for the offer, much appreciated, if i do need a 'spokes person' i will drop you a line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirky Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Ive just orderd a .223 cooper varminter with 1/9 twist through Brian Fox, i have been told not to expect the rifle until October/ November, perhaps i should asked which year . i will keep you posted as to what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 With regards to Nicks comments on Brian Fox, I am sure that he is only "speaking as he finds". The fact that lots of other people have had satisfactory dealings with Brian is no consolation whatsoever to Nick. I have had exactly the same problem with excuses and blatent lies from Evans-Kendrick who "runs" Riflecraft. He is a compulsive liar who has the worst luck in the world. Every balls-up that happens is never his fault. These people should realise that customers are not totally stupid. it would be a good idea if they both adopted the habit of writing down the lies that they tell so that they could refer to them when making up the next batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 I think the Riflecraft outfit have been exposed for not delivering by several people now, however they always suck up the shooting press to get their wares in Shooting Sports and the like hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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