223 or 22-250?

[Ackley]

Next time you come to yorkshire let me no I'll take you to stead hall firearms and show you! I don't talk rubbish. I have both calibres and that is my opinion on both. I have had my 22-250 for a few years now and I shoot full batches of sako bullets through a sako made gun. Even the guy at stead hall couldn't believe that it only slightly takes the edge of the hole out. If you come up let me no you can come out with us lamping and you will see that what I said is true.

Also the 243 has the same case and the same powder and the only difference is the size of the shoulder there's no more powder. Yes there is more damage and will have less wind drift but does increase the drop over longer distances. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 243 isn't a fantastic round but it is not as good for foxes at long distances as you have to account for its bullet drop with heavy bullets. I haven't shot 70 gr bullets in it only 90 gr. I may change my mind if I did but there's no point in putting 70 gr in a 243 because you can put that in a 22-250 you want atleast 85 gr bullets to have the difference between them. It is obvious the 243 has more killing power but its only a fox you can kill them well with 17hmr and 22 hornet so either of these are definitely going to be the the perfect fox killers in the right hands as them rounds can do the job and there nothing compaired to these.

so your telling me that both the 22.250 and the 243 share the same powder charge but different weight heads

mate you need to educate yourself on balistics,as i have already said a 250 with a 50gr pill may make 3600 fps but so will a 243 uisng a 70gr pill which ballistically is much better so will beat the 250 hands down

where is yorkshire are you I will glady come up I go into yorkshire shooting quite often

but going back to your origonal statement of " the 22.250 will out shoot a 243" is totally wrong as it wont even if you use a 58gr pill in the 243,as for long distance with a 243 I have something that will open your eyes,by the way you cant just put a 75gr pill in a 22.250 as fasctory rifle dont come with the correct twist

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ackley

[Salop Matt]

For those not in the know if you zeroed both the .223 and .22-250 at 100yards where would you be at 50yards, 150 yards, 200yards and 250 yards !

 

Either that or at what ever a typoical zero distance is for them both then where they are at 50yards, 100, 150,200,and 250 !

 

[Ackley]

For those not in the know if you zeroed both the .223 and .22-250 at 100yards where would you be at 50yards, 150 yards, 200yards and 250 yards !

 

Either that or at what ever a typoical zero distance is for them both then where they are at 50yards, 100, 150,200,and 250 !

 

 

quite an impossable task unless you test the same make of factory ammo in each rifle as diiferent ammo will peform diffrently,the links I posted for you to read had the basic info your asking for

as to zero distance on a personal note I zero everything at 200 yards which is basically the optimun point of inpact for most C/F rifles give or take a yard or two

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ackley

[Ackley]

basil-blaster

I think you should read the first paragragh of this link,written by an expert

http://www.chuckhawks.com/243Win.htm

prooves exactly what iam trying to tell you

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ackley

[Salop Matt]

Am just curious about the bullets flight !

As in are folk debating potentially the difference between a inch or 2 at 250yards or a foot or what

 

People are saying the 22-250 is flatter shooting but how flat ar we on about ? The same over 250 yards as a HMR over 120 yards?

 

And is this the CF vertion of 22lr vs HMR vs WMR that normally does the rounds twice a month !

[Underdog]

Just to add my bit,,,,,,, when it comes to the 22 center fires and fox's I always favour the little 40grn bullets, especially the BT and V-max's. In my humble opinion with a 1 in 14" twist they shine. Besides my own experience in 222 and Hornet a friend uses said in his 22-250 at over 4000fps it is very very flat! It bucks the wind too. He can watch the impact too! Now if I remember correct he has it about 3/4" high at 100yds and is zeroed just over 200yds and only down about 3" at 300yds (give or take!). At 100yds they do like going down the same hole! That I have seen! I lamp for him from my car while he shoots, if we ID it as fox and safe all he has to concentrate on is the release!

 

My old 222 would do 3950ish on RL7, and that was seriously flat too.

 

Whilst heavier bullets can buck wind good, don't forget a super fast light one is not in the air long enough to get too worried by wind over a useful range

 

U.

[aister]

salop sniper, this info was taken from the hornady website, is it what you were looking for, hope it helps.

 

.223 55gr v-max

 

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

3240/1282 2854/995 2500/763 2172/576 1871/427 1598/312

 

Trajectory (inches)

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

-1.50 1.40 0.00 -7.00 -21.40 -45.90

 

.22-250 55gr v-max

 

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

3680/1654 3253/1292 2867/1003 2511/770 2183/582 1880/432

 

Trajectory (inches)

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

-1.50 0.90 0.00 -5.20 -15.90 -33.90

 

.243 58gr v-max

 

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

 

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

3925/1984 3465/1546 3051/1199 2674/921 2327/697 2007/519

 

Trajectory (inches)

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

-1.50 0.70 0.00 -4.50 -13.80 -29.60

Edited February 6, 2012 by aister

[kent]

What's the pros and cons of these two rounds against each other? Trying to decide?

 

.223 is often available in twists rates from 1-8 to 1-12 generally if you want to use 55grn your better with the latter end 22-250 are normally intended for 55 grn stuff from the off. No advantage in 22-250 till you get out to near 300yds and its a lot harder to moderate with a far shorter barrel life and more costly to load. 99% of fox /vermin shooters are therefore better off with .223 BUT it depends

[kent]

Just to add my bit,,,,,,, when it comes to the 22 center fires and fox's I always favour the little 40grn bullets, especially the BT and V-max's. In my humble opinion with a 1 in 14" twist they shine. Besides my own experience in 222 and Hornet a friend uses said in his 22-250 at over 4000fps it is very very flat! It bucks the wind too. He can watch the impact too! Now if I remember correct he has it about 3/4" high at 100yds and is zeroed just over 200yds and only down about 3" at 300yds (give or take!). At 100yds they do like going down the same hole! That I have seen! I lamp for him from my car while he shoots, if we ID it as fox and safe all he has to concentrate on is the release!

 

My old 222 would do 3950ish on RL7, and that was seriously flat too.

 

Whilst heavier bullets can buck wind good, don't forget a super fast light one is not in the air long enough to get too worried by wind over a useful range

 

U.

 

Sorry but speed has limited effect on improving windages its down to BC. Drive a 40grn bullet as fast as you like in .223 or .22-250 it wont compete with a heavier higher bc 6mm or even 6.5 on wind ragardless of a lot less speed on tap

[adam f]

Thanks for all replies, all very useful, and from what I gather for foxes both are capable with equal pros and cons.

 

So to throw the cat in the pigeons: what if I want to use the rifle for the occasional muntjac? Same advice apply or is one better than another?

[aister]

Thanks for all replies, all very useful, and from what I gather for foxes both are capable with equal pros and cons.

 

So to throw the cat in the pigeons: what if I want to use the rifle for the occasional muntjac? Same advice apply or is one better than another?

 

you really want to throw the cat among the pigeons, check out this link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209996/?tag=content;col1 :yp: :yp: :yp:

[Underdog]

Sorry but speed has limited effect on improving windages its down to BC. Drive a 40grn bullet as fast as you like in .223 or .22-250 it wont compete with a heavier higher bc 6mm or even 6.5 on wind ragardless of a lot less speed on tap

I agree with what you say with exception, comparing BC holds true when comparing similar speeds.

 

Where I am coming from is not of a one beating the other etc. I come from practical field use experience. Most vermin shots are this side of 300, infact probably inside 150yds. My years in the field have proven to me that less time in the air via a light fast bullet over these shortish distances are all that is required. It is so easy to believe that more is better, higher BC, higher this, bigger that and so it goes. This don't mean I turn my nose up to those that feel different, everyone is different and finds different conclusions. Look at the number of folk now using .17 this and that and with their poor BCs!

 

Even my 308 gets to use light 110grn v-max, they zip along quite quick for 308 and are mustard on vermin. Sure I can and could use a higher BC bullet for it but I know it won't be as flat or any better in the wind over the 100-200yards I mostly shoot at critters with it. They(heavier bullets) are there for the deer, mainly as I want two holes in them, a pass through. Not because deer require a higher BC.

 

U.

[kent]

Thanks for all replies, all very useful, and from what I gather for foxes both are capable with equal pros and cons.

 

So to throw the cat in the pigeons: what if I want to use the rifle for the occasional muntjac? Same advice apply or is one better than another?

 

again it makes little difference between the two .22's you mention coz you aint gonna be shooting them at ranges that need the trajectory flattening.

[Underdog]

you really want to throw the cat among the pigeons, check out this link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209996/?tag=content;col1 :yp: :yp: :yp:

Yep, good int' it. Done similar with my 308. Harvesting rabbit in a gale, no problem.

18 1/2 grn H4227 and a Speer 170 grn FP. Little windage needed over 50yd rabbit ranges, sounds like a 410 3"

 

Like my old keeper mate says "what'll do alot 'll do a little"!

 

U.

[basil-blaster]

so your telling me that both the 22.250 and the 243 share the same powder charge but different weight heads

mate you need to educate yourself on balistics,as i have already said a 250 with a 50gr pill may make 3600 fps but so will a 243 uisng a 70gr pill which ballistically is much better so will beat the 250 hands down

where is yorkshire are you I will glady come up I go into yorkshire shooting quite often

but going back to your origonal statement of " the 22.250 will out shoot a 243" is totally wrong as it wont even if you use a 58gr pill in the 243,as for long distance with a 243 I have something that will open your eyes,by the way you cant just put a 75gr pill in a 22.250 as fasctory rifle dont come with the correct twist

 

right first of all you are on about putting 58 gr bullets in a 243 which is going to be as flat as a 22-250 im on about heavy bullets not light bullets and ye let me no next time your up and we can have a shoot, and ya cant get 75 gr but i no of a lad who puts 68 gr (i think somewhere around that weight) bullets into his 22-250, if you shoot the same weight bullets with the tiny amount of more powder there is then you are going to get a really flat projectile, but i am saying heavy bullets, 90 gr plus are going to drop alot compaired to 58 gr obviously. i am not going to say that a 243 with a light bullet can be better than a 22-250 50 gr but for long distance and flatness the 22-250 is better for foxes as you can not always work out the distance at night, 243 with light bullets are perfect for foxes but large heavy bullets like 90 gr plus are going to drop over large distances more even though there will be less wind drift but theres not much wind drift from the 22-250 anyway,

im from bradford and when you come up let me know and if the range is open when you come i will gladly meet you for a shoot, i dont want to have a big argument on here, but the facts which i dont think you will disagree with are:

 

22-250 - flat round, great accuracy, very good killing power for foxes, low recoil for the quality of the kill power. you can go shooting and shoot with the crosshairs on the target not worry about it

 

243 - more recoil than 22-250, very good accuracy for heavy bullets but the drop lets it down for long distances, it is a 1000 yard calibre but you have to take the time to take the shot, a 22-250 is so flat you can take the shot with no worry, if you put 58 bullets in it it will be great but the 243 is better than that it should have 85 gr plus.

 

i am not saying the 243 is not good its ace calibre but the 22-250 is a great FOX calibre, 243 is mainly used for DEER and deer is larger than a fox and the drop of heavy bullets could cause you to miss unless you are sure of the distance

 

find out the weight of powder in the 243 and the 22-250 its not far off the same,

 

BELLOW THIS IS A COMMENT FROM A TOP RIFLE SHOOTER WHO SHOOTS BOTH THE 22-250 AND THE 243 AND READ IT CAREFULLY THE GUY EVEN SAID THAT IT OUTSHOOT THE 243 AT SHORTER DISTANCES LIKE MEANING UNDER 500 YARDS:

 

Some cartridges are absolutely more inherently accurate than others, but no cartridge is the best at everything. This is probably another moot debate when it comes to hunting though as most any caliber will shoot well in a good gun..specifically by hunting standards. Benchrest standards are a whole nother story. Cartridge efficiency and inherent accuracy go hand in hand IMO. The 6PPC cartridge dominates benchrest group shooting. It's widely accepted as the world's most accurate cartridge. While that's debatable, you are not going to beat it with an identically built 300 Ultra Mag at distances of less than 300 yards(and maybe somewhat more). But at the long range game, the 300 Ultra(and several others) will spank the venerable 6PPC. When talking about all out accuracy,you build a gun for a specific purpose. Anything less is a compromise to suit your needs or wants from the gun as a whole.

As for the .243 vs. .22-250...the same applies from factory built guns in particular. The standard twist rate for a .22-250 is 1-14 and will only stabilize bullets of up to 55-60 grains. These bullets are not the best choice for long range. The .243 standard twist rate is 1-10 and will stabilize bullets up to about 100 grains. The .243 has a big advantage at longer ranges, but from my experience, at shorter ranges the .22-250 usually will outshoot the .243. Both are fine calibers though. Now lets put a fast twist barrel on the 22-250. Say a 1-7 twist that will shoot 80 grain bullets at about 3200fps. The playing field is now about even for short and long range between the two and the best shooting gun is probably a coin toss at both short and long range. FWIW, they are both good rounds but neither would be my first choice for an all around varmint caliber. Do a search for 6BR cartridge. It has more accuracy potential and better barrel life than either a .22-250 or .243 and would be my first choice for an all around varmint caliber, and is still plenty for deer size game as well.--Mike Ezell

[Ackley]

 

right first of all you are on about putting 58 gr bullets in a 243 which is going to be as flat as a 22-250 im on about heavy bullets not light bullets and ye let me no next time your up and we can have a shoot, and ya cant get 75 gr but i no of a lad who puts 68 gr (i think somewhere around that weight) bullets into his 22-250, if you shoot the same weight bullets with the tiny amount of more powder there is then you are going to get a really flat projectile, but i am saying heavy bullets, 90 gr plus are going to drop alot compaired to 58 gr obviously. i am not going to say that a 243 with a light bullet can be better than a 22-250 50 gr but for long distance and flatness the 22-250 is better for foxes as you can not always work out the distance at night, 243 with light bullets are perfect for foxes but large heavy bullets like 90 gr plus are going to drop over large distances more even though there will be less wind drift but theres not much wind drift from the 22-250 anyway,

im from bradford and when you come up let me know and if the range is open when you come i will gladly meet you for a shoot, i dont want to have a big argument on here, but the facts which i dont think you will disagree with are:

 

sorry but now you are showing your lack of experience even with a 22.250 as if you do your homework Hornady sell 60,68,7075 and 80 gr bullets for the 224 caliber,unfortunatly you will need to have a barrel with a different twist fitted to use these,you mat get away with the 60s at a push,you obviously didnt read the link written by chuck hawks I posted for you,clearly showing a 243 uisng an 80gr pill is as flat as a 250 uisng a 55gr pill,you still dont understand basic ballistics,how can a 250 be better for flatness and distance than a 243 shooting a better BC bullet at the same speed,you dont need to work the distance out at night a 250 zeroed 1.5 inch high at 100 yards will be good to point and press at a fox at 300 a 243 zeroed at 200 yards will easy do the same BUT if windy the 243 will wins hands down and also offer better killing power

22-250 - flat round, great accuracy, very good killing power for foxes, low recoil for the quality of the kill power. you can go shooting and shoot with the crosshairs on the target not worry about it

 

243 - more recoil than 22-250, very good accuracy for heavy bullets but the drop lets it down for long distances, it is a 1000 yard calibre but you have to take the time to take the shot, a 22-250 is so flat you can take the shot with no worry, if you put 58 bullets in it it will be great but the 243 is better than that it should have 85 gr plus.

 

i am not saying the 243 is not good its ace calibre but the 22-250 is a great FOX calibre, 243 is mainly used for DEER and deer is larger than a fox and the drop of heavy bullets could cause you to miss unless you are sure of the distance

 

find out the weight of powder in the 243 and the 22-250 its not far off the same,

 

no one said the 250 isnt a great round,it is I used one for many years,but it dont come close to a 243,how can a 243 have more recoil did you claim "a 250 has the same powder charge as a 243" the 243 has great accuarcy for all manner of bullet weight,can you expalin to me how longer distances let the 243 down have you shot past 200 yards before ??,the 243 isnt a 1000 yard caliber unless you have a suitable twist barrel to use 115 gr bullets,again showing your lack of knowlage for either caliber,also the 243 isnt mainly used for deer yes its deer legal but so is a 250

look mate your a young man who has probably been shooting C/F for a couple of years you need to open your eyes a littler more and educate yourself on calibers bullet BC and basic ballistics.

at the end of the day dead is dead no matter what you use but please dont try to tell me a 250 is the best thing since sliced bread or I would still be using one,guess what I dont

[

 

 

BELLOW THIS IS A COMMENT FROM A TOP RIFLE SHOOTER WHO SHOOTS BOTH THE 22-250 AND THE 243 AND READ IT CAREFULLY THE GUY EVEN SAID THAT IT OUTSHOOT THE 243 AT SHORTER DISTANCES LIKE MEANING UNDER 500 YARDS:

 

Some cartridges are absolutely more inherently accurate than others, but no cartridge is the best at everything. This is probably another moot debate when it comes to hunting though as most any caliber will shoot well in a good gun..specifically by hunting standards. Benchrest standards are a whole nother story. Cartridge efficiency and inherent accuracy go hand in hand IMO. The 6PPC cartridge dominates benchrest group shooting. It's widely accepted as the world's most accurate cartridge. While that's debatable, you are not going to beat it with an identically built 300 Ultra Mag at distances of less than 300 yards(and maybe somewhat more). But at the long range game, the 300 Ultra(and several others) will spank the venerable 6PPC. When talking about all out accuracy,you build a gun for a specific purpose. Anything less is a compromise to suit your needs or wants from the gun as a whole.

As for the .243 vs. .22-250...the same applies from factory built guns in particular. The standard twist rate for a .22-250 is 1-14 and will only stabilize bullets of up to 55-60 grains. These bullets are not the best choice for long range. The .243 standard twist rate is 1-10 and will stabilize bullets up to about 100 grains. The .243 has a big advantage at longer ranges, but from my experience, at shorter ranges the .22-250 usually will outshoot the .243. Both are fine calibers though. Now lets put a fast twist barrel on the 22-250. Say a 1-7 twist that will shoot 80 grain bullets at about 3200fps. The playing field is now about even for short and long range between the two and the best shooting gun is probably a coin toss at both short and long range. FWIW, they are both good rounds but neither would be my first choice for an all around varmint caliber. Do a search for 6BR cartridge. It has more accuracy potential and better barrel life than either a .22-250 or .243 and would be my first choice for an all around varmint caliber, and is still plenty for deer size game as well.--Mike Ez

 

I suggest you take you own advice and read this article again espcially

"The standard twist rate for a .22-250 is 1-14 and will only stabilize bullets of up to 55-60 grains. These bullets are not the best choice for long range. The .243 standard twist rate is 1-10 and will stabilize bullets up to about 100 grains. The .243 has a big advantage at longer ranges, "

how the hell this guy can say a 250 will outshoot a 243 at shorter ranges is beyond me clearly a mad man and not really clued up on what hes talking about

Edited February 7, 2012 by Ackley

[Mr_Logic]

Although he says one truth - I'd take a 6BR over either, assuming you can get it feeding right.

 

Ackley this is rare, but I am in agreement. 243 ****** all over. 22-250 as a fox round. You win ballistically with the 55 6mm Nosler (except for Hornady's 53gr vmax), and everything heavier gets better. They both kill a 200 yard fox without any changes to aim or zero, and further out I will know range and thus drop better than wind, so BC is king.

 

All that said, 22-250 has a place, it's a good round, but it simply isn't the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Getting back to the debate at hand, 223 is great on muntjac. 22-250 will be the same but further away. The wise man gets a 1-8 or 1-9 and shoots the 75 Amax. With a 22-250 it'll be 3100 or so, and then you win :-)

[Ackley]

Although he says one truth - I'd take a 6BR over either, assuming you can get it feeding right.

 

Ackley this is rare, but I am in agreement. 243 ****** all over. 22-250 as a fox round. You win ballistically with the 55 6mm Nosler (except for Hornady's 53gr vmax), and everything heavier gets better. They both kill a 200 yard fox without any changes to aim or zero, and further out I will know range and thus drop better than wind, so BC is king.

 

All that said, 22-250 has a place, it's a good round, but it simply isn't the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Getting back to the debate at hand, 223 is great on muntjac. 22-250 will be the same but further away. The wise man gets a 1-8 or 1-9 and shoots the 75 Amax. With a 22-250 it'll be 3100 or so, and then you win :-)

 

not really hard to disagree with facts,I would challenge your thought on the 6mm BR as I have done a lot of testing with one to try and get it up to the same point and squirt type shooting as a 243,it only came close using a light bullet,great caliber but best left on the bench shooting paper,my opinion of course

[basil-blaster]

ACKLEY

 

 

talking about experiance: i shoot over 300 foxes a year and have every year for 5 years and one year i shot 436 one year so thats over 1600 foxes since i got my centrefire so dont tell me that i need more experiance iv shot so many i have had to get another gun because i shot it out!. instead of arguing with people saying this that and the other, my mate has a compitition barrel in his 22-250 which has got the correct twist for that weight, so he can stabalise the bullet. im not talking about the ballistics of the gun im talking about been in the feild and shooting a fox not thinking about shooting one sat on here,its ok saying this and that and the other about calibres but the ballistics dont mean **** if you take a gun into the feild and shoot a fox at 300 yards and it hits it spot on and kills it immediatly that shows how good the calibre is, yes a 243 is better in some ways but like i said we are on about shooting foxes! i know a lad that shoot foxes with a 30-06 and it minces them but whats the point you are trying to control them not blow them up. i dont look at the ballistics and all that. i look for accuracy and killing power and flatness of the round for fox shooting the flatter the round the better the round is for foxing as i have said before which i do not know if you know or not, you cannot judge distances at night properly. if you shoot heavy rounds you get more dropping of the bullet. my mate shoots a 204 ruger with 35 gr bullets in and shoots foxes at 300 yards no problem and has a great flat bullet but drifts more than the 22-250. but like i have said before the 22-250 is the best calibre for fox distruction without a doubt, 80% of people who have a 22-250 and a 243 would say that the 22-250 is better for foxes.

Edited February 7, 2012 by basil-blaster

[Ackley]

ACKLEY

 

 

talking about experiance: i shoot over 300 foxes a year and have every year for 5 years and one year i shot 436 one year so thats over 1600 foxes since i got my centrefire so dont tell me that i need more experiance iv shot so many i have had to get another gun because i shot it out!. instead of arguing with people saying this that and the other, my mate has a compitition barrel in his 22-250 which has got the correct twist for that weight, so he can stabalise the bullet. im not talking about the ballistics of the gun im talking about been in the feild and shooting a fox not thinking about shooting one sat on here,its ok saying this and that and the other about calibres but the ballistics dont mean **** if you take a gun into the feild and shoot a fox at 300 yards and it hits it spot on and kills it immediatly that shows how good the calibre is, yes a 243 is better in some ways but like i said we are on about shooting foxes! i know a lad that shoot foxes with a 30-06 and it minces them but whats the point you are trying to control them not blow them up. i dont look at the ballistics and all that. i look for accuracy and killing power and flatness of the round for fox shooting the flatter the round the better the round is for foxing as i have said before which i do not know if you know or not, you cannot judge distances at night properly. if you shoot heavy rounds you get more dropping of the bullet. my mate shoots a 204 ruger with 35 gr bullets in and shoots foxes at 300 yards no problem and has a great flat bullet but drifts more than the 22-250. but like i have said before the 22-250 is the best calibre for fox distruction without a doubt, 80% of people who have a 22-250 and a 243 would say that the 22-250 is better for foxes.

 

wow 436 foxes in 1 year that 36.3 foxes per month,must be a UK record.

so you have been shooting a C/F for 5 years that would make you 16 when youn had your first FAC I thought you had to be 17 for a firearms ticket ??

your yearly count has gone up form 250 to 300 in a matter of a few posts you have made

ballistic mean everything mate when shooting.

as its been said on this thread no one is disputing how good a 250 is a 223 is also a good claiber BUT a 250 isnt as good as a 243 and never will be as the 243 is far more verstile and uisng a 70 gr bullet will be flatter faster and better in the wind than a 250,thats a fact mate which cannot be disputed

obvoulsy your not a reloader so may I suggest goping and buying yourself a box of factory 75 gr Norma V max then go and shoot both your rifle side by side then come and tell me which is the best

by the way Iam not arguing just stating undisputed facts

as to not bein g able to judge distances at night,dont you do your homework for someone who shoots as many foxes as yourself surely you will know distances of walls,hedges land marks on your land as I knoe I do,but saying that any caliber correctly zeroed should be fine for 300 yards give or take an inch or two,but the best way is use a range finder

can you please explain why a 250 is a better fox caliber than a 243

your maths dont stack up 1600 foxes since owning a C/F and you say you shot it out,now thats not many shots to burn a rifle out for a man who never misses

 

"I shoot over 250 foxes a year with 22-250 and about 70 with 243. Never missed or had a runner off either but had some low shots at 300 yards on small foxes with 243."

Edited February 7, 2012 by Ackley

[kent]

I agree with what you say with exception, comparing BC holds true when comparing similar speeds.

 

Where I am coming from is not of a one beating the other etc. I come from practical field use experience. Most vermin shots are this side of 300, infact probably inside 150yds. My years in the field have proven to me that less time in the air via a light fast bullet over these shortish distances are all that is required. It is so easy to believe that more is better, higher BC, higher this, bigger that and so it goes. This don't mean I turn my nose up to those that feel different, everyone is different and finds different conclusions. Look at the number of folk now using .17 this and that and with their poor BCs!

 

Even my 308 gets to use light 110grn v-max, they zip along quite quick for 308 and are mustard on vermin. Sure I can and could use a higher BC bullet for it but I know it won't be as flat or any better in the wind over the 100-200yards I mostly shoot at critters with it. They(heavier bullets) are there for the deer, mainly as I want two holes in them, a pass through. Not because deer require a higher BC.

 

U.

 

Trajectory is not the relivent factor inside 150 and of limited gain inside 300 Anyone with real long range experiance knows that its all about wind and the shooters ability to read and compensate for it. Wind does not just shift you sideways it can lift or lower the POI and it certainly makes it harder to retain your accuraccy shot to shot as it is not a constant. with todays rangefinding equipment this is even more relivent than it ever was

 

 

comparing BC holds true when comparing similar speeds No sorry ( REF:SPEED, COMPAISOM BC )as in your statement) Case in point look at the .22 lr sub at 1050 and the HMR at 2500 fps - now thats a lot of extra speed OVER DOUBLE! yet look at the 100yds windages yes the HMR is better in a 10mph 90 degree wind but it aint worth jot though in the real world both are nr as makes no matter 4" if you can call the 1/2" visually without flags downrange and two winreadings i take my hat off to you. The .22 sub does this by being slippier in that side wind. The speed is not very relivent to windage, Continue the discusion if you will

[Mr_Logic]

ACKLEY

 

 

talking about experiance: i shoot over 300 foxes a year and have every year for 5 years and one year i shot 436 one year so thats over 1600 foxes since i got my centrefire so dont tell me that i need more experiance iv shot so many i have had to get another gun because i shot it out!. instead of arguing with people saying this that and the other, my mate has a compitition barrel in his 22-250 which has got the correct twist for that weight, so he can stabalise the bullet. im not talking about the ballistics of the gun im talking about been in the feild and shooting a fox not thinking about shooting one sat on here,its ok saying this and that and the other about calibres but the ballistics dont mean **** if you take a gun into the feild and shoot a fox at 300 yards and it hits it spot on and kills it immediatly that shows how good the calibre is, yes a 243 is better in some ways but like i said we are on about shooting foxes! i know a lad that shoot foxes with a 30-06 and it minces them but whats the point you are trying to control them not blow them up. i dont look at the ballistics and all that. i look for accuracy and killing power and flatness of the round for fox shooting the flatter the round the better the round is for foxing as i have said before which i do not know if you know or not, you cannot judge distances at night properly. if you shoot heavy rounds you get more dropping of the bullet. my mate shoots a 204 ruger with 35 gr bullets in and shoots foxes at 300 yards no problem and has a great flat bullet but drifts more than the 22-250. but like i have said before the 22-250 is the best calibre for fox distruction without a doubt, 80% of people who have a 22-250 and a 243 would say that the 22-250 is better for foxes.

You are talking rubbish. You might not UNDERSTAND ballistics, but they underpin everything you do in the field. You want to hit a fox beyond the distance of point and shoot, then you need to understand what happens to that bullet when it leaves the barrel.

 

Before i explain simple ballistics, two things - firstly you say:

 

"the 22-250 is the best calibre for fox distruction without a doubt"

 

and

 

"80% of people who have a 22-250 and a 243 would say that the 22-250 is better for foxes."

 

the first statement is simply wrong - there is no such thing as the BEST calibre, because each situation is different. You allege your fox destruction numbers - you must be out every single second of every day with that number. Either that or you shoot near the RSCPA dumping ground. I find it hard to believe because of the BS you are spouting here about 'best' calibre. If I need to shoot a fox in a back garden I really don't want a 22-250 (or a 243 for that matter), in that case the 22LR is the best fox round there is.

 

The second statement is made up fiction unless you've done a survey. Also, if you have a 22-250 and a 243, then you aren't likely to say that your 22-250 is actually rubbish - what are you doing with it if not shooting fox?

 

Ballistics are vital - careful bullet choice, together with drop and windage numbers allow humane kills at longer ranges, when the benefit of using a bigger round on a small animal can be felt. The 6mm bullet has a better BC than most 22 bullets, even the lighter ones. The 243 will send a 55gr Nosler as fast as the 22-250 does a 50gr (faster actually, 4000fps +) and it will fly flatter because it retains energy longer. When it arrives it will do so with more thump than the 22-250 can ever hope to achieve.

 

So if power is your out-and-out concern, then 22-250 STILL loses.

[garyb]

If 22CF performance is so superior? Why is the long range (say >600 yards) target market flooded with rifles chambered in 6mm?

 

I've sat back and watched this thread since suggesting that there are better suited Foxing calibers than 22-250Rem. And quite frankly I couldn't agree more with the other members who have suggested you don't know your elbow from your proverbial.

 

I sold my 223 in favor of a 243 and have not looked back.

[Mr_Logic]

all calibres do have their place though, the smaller 22CFs especially - they are quieter and cheaper than 22-250/243.

[Underdog]

Trajectory is not the relivent factor inside 150 and of limited gain inside 300 Anyone with real long range experiance knows that its all about wind and the shooters ability to read and compensate for it. Wind does not just shift you sideways it can lift or lower the POI and it certainly makes it harder to retain your accuraccy shot to shot as it is not a constant. with todays rangefinding equipment this is even more relivent than it ever was

 

 

comparing BC holds true when comparing similar speeds No sorry ( REF:SPEED, COMPAISOM BC )as in your statement) Case in point look at the .22 lr sub at 1050 and the HMR at 2500 fps - now thats a lot of extra speed OVER DOUBLE! yet look at the 100yds windages yes the HMR is better in a 10mph 90 degree wind but it aint worth jot though in the real world both are nr as makes no matter 4" if you can call the 1/2" visually without flags downrange and two winreadings i take my hat off to you. The .22 sub does this by being slippier in that side wind. The speed is not very relivent to windage, Continue the discusion if you will

Kent I have to take your word on that example all be it two extreme cases.

 

If you gave an example of a subbie 22 and a 22mag then the mag would win. Similar BC but less time spent in the air, no?

 

What bullet rotation verses wind deflection has to do with this discussion beats me at the moment. I thought this discussion was about field shooting and not paper punching, must of missed something.

 

 

My memory fails me some but I remembe rreading a very good article by Ross Siegfried in Guns and Ammo magazine years ago.

He used a custom rifle in a fair cal something akin to a 338 and developed accurate loads with a range of bullets from one end of the BC scale to the other. He shot them over a long range of which I forget. Between the heavy round nose and the spitzer BT there was just 8" difference in drop. 8" I here you say but don't forget it was at tremendous rang, 600yds or more rings a bell but I am not sure.

 

Once more I will say it and it is only my experience not opinion experience that in the field it matters not a jot what BC your bullet is. What does matter more than anything is the shooters skill, it don't matter how fast his load is or how flat it is or if it drops 1/2" less than Joes. It don't matter if he knows the right to left wind will make his bullet climb or drop a 1/4" more than in still air. As long as he knows and trusts his rig, knows his abilities and limits he will succeed.

 

Now if one feller is happy with a light fast bullet and another with a heavier slower one they still get my blessing. I don't give a rats *** how more one is slippier or how it does at long range on the range, thats to boring, in the field I just want to know who can walk the walk and who is full of talk.

 

As for my friend and his 250, since switching to 40gn Btips the success rate has risen, is this an all encompassing rule for 250 uses? Hell no, it is our experience, someone may or maynot find it usefull I don't give a **** really.

 

U.